SUPPLY. Order for Committee read. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair." PURCHASE OF COMMISSIONS. wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade, Whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce any measure during the present Session for regulating the construction of lines of Electric Telegraph on public roads and lands adjoining thereto; and whether care has been taken to insert in all Private Bills having this object clauses rendering Electric Telegraph Companies liable to future general legislation? MR. MILNER GIBSON replied, that though the Motion which he should beg with regard to the last part of the question of his hon. Friend, as to whether Compa-plying only to one rank, it would be admitted to be of no inconsiderable importance. It had, in fact, for its object to adopt the principle of selection in the appointment to the command of regiments, and that those selections should be made nies which had obtained Acts of Parliament to construct Electric Telegraphs would be subject to future legislation, he believed that none of the Acts contained such a clause; but some of them, he believed about one-half, had a clause which gave to Parliament a power of limited interference at the end of ten years. He had a copy of the clause, which stated "That at any time after the expiration of ten years from the passing of this Act the regulations of the Company with regard to the transmission of messages and the opening of streets shall be subject to a revision of Parliament; and Parliament shall then require and enforce the adoption and performance by the Companies of such modified or other regulations as aforesaid as shall be deemed necessary for the protection and conve. nience of the public." There was no clause as to general legislation by Parliament, but he proposed communicating with the Chairman of Ways and Means recommending that a clause granting such power should be inserted in any Bill now before Parliament. As to the first part of the question, the subject was one of considerable difficulty. It was undergoing consideration, but he could not undertake, as at present advised, to promise that any Bill relating to the question should be introduced during the present Session. THE HORSFALL GUN.-QUESTION. MR. LAIRD said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, If the War Office has decided that the Horsfall Monster Gun shall be tested against the Warrior and other Targets; and, if so, when the trial would take place? SIR GEORGE LEWIS said, it had been decided that some experiment should be made to test the power of the gun, but nothing had been decided as to the precise nature of the experiment. SIR DE LACY EVANS said, that al leave to submit was of limited scope, ap upon the responsibility of the Commander- "An officer intrusted with the command of a regiment is invested with authority which renders him responsible to his Sovereign and his country for the maintenance of discipline, order, and a proper system of economy in his corps; he is to honour were peculiarly requisite in the army. But how was a high sense of truth and honour reconcilable with the unseemly proceedings imposed by Government It was true that naupon the officers. exact from officers and men the most implicit intention of violating the law. It was obedience to regulations, and he is not only to generally, and he thought correctly, asenforce by commands, but to encourage by ex-sumed that a pure and high sense of ample the energetic discharge of duty and the steady endurance of the difficulties and privations which are inseparable from military service." How was that regimental command, admitted on all hands to be of such paramount consequence, at present appointed? By purchase, interest, or seniority. There was no regimental rank in the army from which there was so little guarantee required for competency to perform its duties. In fact, if an officer was next in succession, he was appointed almost as a matter of course to the command of the regiment. But that became still more seriously objectionable in consequence of the late regulation giving to lieutenant colonels, after the short interval of five years, the rank of Colonel, with eligibility to be selected for the command of brigades. These changes rendered the proposed reform, of course, additionally urgent. At page 24 of the Report of the Royal Com mission was the following passage : tions which possessed sufficient power and "If the purchase system interferes thus injuriously with the appointments to the command of regiments, it must indirectly affect all the higher ranks of the army. Whenever the respon-quence, namely, that they tended to an insible advisers of the Crown are obliged to prepare for the contingencies of war, and to recommend Her Majesty to name a commander for her army in the field, they must necessarily select from among those who have obtained high rank in the army. The great majority of these officers, however, will have risen by purchase, obtaining their rank, not from any acknowledged fitness, but from the current of promotion and the opportunities of buying advancement. This country will therefore commence the operations of war under a disadvantage, compared with foreign States, where all the officers in the higher grades will have been subjected to several selections, and may therefore, if the power of selection has been honestly and wisely exercised, be all men of known efficiency and merit." What was the working of the system? A young officer no sooner joined his regiment than a series of inquiries or private bargainings were entered on with him as to the amount beyond the legal prices which he would be prepared to contribute towards the different promotions of the regiment. They had it on the candid and honourable evidence of one of the partners of a most eminent army agency firm that in several corps, but especially in the cavalry, double the legal prices, and often more than double, were usually given; and it appeared in the evidence of the Commander-in-Chief that officers who asked permission to make those purchases invariably concealed from the authorities their ference that our military institutions required no revision. The despatches, however, of that great commander, written not as the head of a great political party, the position which he subsequently held, proved that he considered his operations very frequently injuriously affected by professional deficiencies on the part of those under his command. But, whatever might have been the case half a century back, a considerable degree of professional acquirement was becoming from year to year additionally necessary, and for which the possession of a large sum of money must prove a very unreliable substitute. Neither would the most exact performance of the mere mechanical parade or field-day movements afford for such qualifications any sufficient security. He thought it would not be difficult to cite historical proofs that the shortcomings of not a few commanders raised to rank by these venal means had, at different epochs, cost our country millions of money, fearful loss of lives, and other most regrettable consequences. Thus also it was that the commencement of almost all our conflicts had been usually marked by discomfiture and loss of prestige. But there were fanatics of promotion by money rather than merit. To these he would say, "If this be an honour able and beneficial system, the Government (Lynn (Lord Stanley), Mr. Sidney Herbert, ought to introduce it into all other depart- Sir Harry Jones, and the hon. and gallant ments." But there was no other public Member who has moved the present Resodepartment which would not feel dishonour-lution. The Report of the Commissioners ed by such a mode of advancement. At is very elaborate, and appended to it is the present time the corruption of the sys- evidence which shows that the question tem was more extensive, rife, and flagrant was investigated with great care and imthan at any period during the last 200 partiality. The recommendation at which years. Formerly it was sometimes alleged they ultimately arrived is embodied in the by the defenders of the system, that if it present Resolution, and is to the effect involved corruption, it was only in the bar- that purchase in the army should continue, gains between officer and officer, and that but that the rank of lieutenant colonel the Government had no participation in it. should be subject no longer to purchase, But that could no longer be said, for the but should be bestowed by selection-that account of the Reserved Fund, laid on the is to say, that the lieutenant-colonel of a table of the House only two or three days regiment should be appointed by the selecsince, proved that the Government were tion of the Commander-in-Chief, without now carrying on a most extensive system any purchase. The Government, after conof barter in army commissions. His Mo- sidering the matter, determined to give tion was limited to the one rank of lieu-effect to the chief recommendation of the tenant colonels, and he would not therefore further trespass on the attention of the House. It appeared to him to be a selfevident proposition already more than once acquiesced in by the Government. Unless, then, the noble Lord the Prime Minister and the War Department had resolved that the proved scandals of purchase, by which the officers of the army were blamelessly and involuntarily demoralized, should remain unabated, he hoped that his Motion would be acceded to. Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "in the opinion of this House, no further postponement ought to take place in giving effect to the promises of Government, that the Command of Regiments should no longer be purchasable, and that the promotions to that rank should henceforth be regulated by selection upon the responsibility of the Commander in Chief," -instead thereof. LORD STANLEY seconded the Motion. SIR GEORGE LEWIS: Sir, as my hon. and gallant Friend, owing to the state of his health, which we must all regret, was unable to make his remarks generally audible throughout the House, perhaps it will be convenient if I state the precise nature and grounds of the Motion. I shall, of course, endeavour to do so with perfect fairness. The House is doubtless aware that a Commission was issued some years ago to inquire into the system of purchase and sale of commissions in the army. That Commission was composed of the most eminent and competent Members, including, among others, the Duke of Somerset, the noble Lord the Member for King's Commission with regard to the rank of lieutenant colonel, and that decision was communicated in 1860 to the House by Mr. Sidney Herbert, the then Secretary at War. Soon afterwards it became necessary for him to consider the details of the subject, with a view to carrying into effect the decision which had been formed; but upon approaching the question more closely, he found that it was embarrassed with great difficulties of detail, and that it was necessary to take into account, that owing to the amalgamation of the Indian with the British army, twelve new regimentsthree of cavalry and nine of infantrywould be created, in which commissions would be awarded, not by purchase, but as in the Engineers, by selection and seniority up to the rank of field-officer. There is in those twelve regiments. I understand no doubt that this system is to be retained that my predecessor in the office I now hold saw no immediate prospect of being able to act upon the decision which had been come to, and made a communication to that effect to His Royal Highness the Commander in Chief. In answer to a question put by the noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley), my hon. Friend, who was then Under Secretary, stated in the House that until the Government could have some experience of the working of the system of non-purchase in those twelve regiments, it was not intended to act upon the decision which had previously been announced. That is the state in which I found the question, and I will now give the reasons why, as at present advised, I do not think it expedient to depart from that revised decision of the Government, altered, be entitled to compensation. The estimate of the amounts required for compensation which I have had placed in my hand is-for Cavalry, £1,335,290; for the Guards, £610,110; for the Line, £5,180,630; total, £7,126,030. SIR DE LACY EVANS was understood to intimate a doubt whether this estimate would meet with the sanction of Dr. Farr. or to take any immediate steps for acting | system have legally paid for their commisupon the recommendation of the Commissions would, if that system was suddenly sion. I wish the House to understand, not that the question is at all finally concluded, but that, as these twelve regiments have not been formed, in point of experience it remains practically where it stood when my hon. Friend gave the answer to which I have referred, last Session. With the permission of the House, I will state briefly the reasons why I see great difficulty in acceding to the Motion of the hon. and gallant General. The subject to which he has limited his Resolution must be considered as part of the larger question, as to the expediency of entirely abolishing the system of purchase. It must be re garded as the first important step in that direction, and therefore the House would fall into a serious practical error if they thought that they could decide this question without exercising a material influence upon the decision of the larger one. In fact, the hon. and gallant General takes that view of the case, because, in apology for the limited scope of his Motion, he said, that at least it would be the commencement of the reformation of the general system, and he qualified his signature to the Report of the Commission in the following terms: "As a member of the Commission, he has the honour to state that he has deemed it a duty to sign the Report decided on by the Commissioners, because he fully concurs in the recommendations, as far as they go, which it contains. But, as the evidence adduced has strengthened the convictions which he previously held on the subject, and as he believes that some additional measures may with advantage to the public be adopted, having for their object a more early termination of the system of sale and purchase of commissions in the army than is provided for in this Report, he will feel it his duty to transmit, as soon as practicable, to the office of the Commission a representation of his humble opinions to this effect." It is therefore obvious that my hon. and gallant Friend considers the application of the principle of selection to appointment to the rank of lieutenant colonel only an instalment towards a general alteration of the system, and that on that account this more limited question has a very close connection with the more extended one. One difficulty in the way of the abo lition of the purchase system which meets us on the threshold, is the large amount which it would be necessary for the House to provide for compensation; because I apprehend that it will not be denied, that officers who under the existing SIR GEORGE LEWIS: I cannot say whether Dr. Farr has been consulted upon this estimate, nor did I know that he was an authority upon military statistics. No doubt there will be many different estimates. I have given to the House that which I have obtained from the War Office, and which is certainly not a fanciful estimate. Confining ourselves, however, to the limited question which the hon. and gallant General has brought before the House, it would require about £494,290 to pay to 384 lieutenant colonels the difference between the value of a majority and that of a licutenant-colonelcy, if they received it at once. Taking it for granted that each officer would, before selling, become entitled to the full value, £17,900 must be added, which would make the total £512,190. These are the most material parts of the financial view of the question. I merely state the facts, and leave the House to form its own judgment as to the conclusion which is to be drawn from them. Beyond this there are certain practical advantages, the possession of which by the system of purchase cannot be denied, howOne of the most prominent of these is the ever much it may be denounced in theory. youth of the officers. It will be universally admitted that a system of purchase clears away officers in the higher grades, and secures to our army, upon the whole, a younger, more efficient, and more active class of officers than can be obtained in any army in which seniority is the only rule of promotion. As to what the hon. and gallant General said with reference to a system of purchase giving a monopoly to the aristocratic class, it is rather difficult to find out what is meant by the aristocracy in this country; but if by "the aristocratic class" he means the Members of the House of Lords and their relations, I apprehend that any one who turns over the pages of the Army List, and looks at the names of the officers, will see that there cannot be a greater mistake than to sup some other cause, he might not have been distinguished as a major. The general in command on the station might think that the claims of this officer to the command of the regiment were very good, and might remonstrate against his supersession, or give him strong testimonials which would make him a discontented man for life with an exceedingly good grievance. I must think that the probability of the strong argument against our having recourse to a system of selection. In order to show the House the difference between the English and French armies in this respect, I will read a few lines from the Report of the Commissioners. Speaking of the French army, they say— "Selection is governed by the following regulations:-Inspectors general are appointed for every branch of the service; they are specially named for this duty, and are not the officers who comprinted form of instructions before they command the district. These inspectors receive a mence their annual tour of inspection. When an inspector general has inspected a regiment, the commanding .officer of the regiment presents to him his list of officers for promotion; the inspector general examines these officers, and selects those whom he considers most fit; he then prepares a confidential report, and transmits it to the Minister of War. When all the inspections are finished, the inspectors meet in committee, review the names in these several reports, and from among them prepare a list for the Minister. The Minister promotes them in rotation, or not, as he thinks best." pose that the officers of our army are principally, or in any large degree, taken from the aristocratic class, in this sense of the word. I do not at all believe that the purchase system has produced that narrowing effect which the hon. and gallant Officer attributes to it. There is another advantage arising from the purchase system to which military men attach great importance, which perhaps a civilian is not able to appreciate as well as a mili-occurrence of such a case affords a very tary man; but which, nevertheless, I believe to be a very solid and substantial benefit-namely, what is called the regimental system, according to which promotion takes place in a regiment, the officers live together in a manner which is not usual in foreign armies where there is no mess, and altogether an esprit de corps and mutual confidence and familiarity are produced, which tend very much to the efficient working of our military system. It is often said how absurd it is to have purchase in the army when you do not have it in the navy. Now, there is this great difference between a regiment and a ship-that a ship is paid off when it comes into port, and its officers fluctuate from time to time. There is a continuous unity in a regiment which a ship cannot possess, and which is undoubtedly promoted by a system of purchase. There is another great practical difficulty in the way of appointing lieutenant colonels by selection, growing out of the manner in which our army is employed abroad. If our army was like that of France or Prussia, the adoption of such a system would be much In imitation of the French system, it may be easier than it now is. A large part of our suggested that special inspectors should be aparmy is permanently abroad. How would pointed to visit and examine the regiments, and the principle of selection operate in regard ful consideration of their reports. Such a scheme that all promotion should be based upon a careto it? Let the House suppose that a could hardly be applied to the British army. Inlieutenant colonel dies on his station inspectors could not be sent annually from the New Zealand, or at Hongkong, Pekin, or Horse Guards to visit regiments dispersed from some other distant part of the world? The Canada to Australia.” senior major would, as a matter of course, succeed to the command of the regiment. The vacancy would immediately be reported home, and probably in about six months, or a longer interval from the death of the officer, a successor, appointed by selection, would arrive out to take the command, and to supersede the officer who had commanded the regiment for six months, and who might have greatly distinguished himself in the interval. Hostilities might have broken out, and the officer might have shown that he was eminently qualified for the post of a commander, although, from indolence or That is the system of the French army, of which the Commissioners say very truly I think the House will see at once that any system of inspection of this kind for our army would be altogether inapplicable. In the French army, the chief part of which is confined to the limits of France, such a system is perfectly practicable, and no doubt works satisfactorily; but the peculiar service of our army renders it altogether impossible. Supposing the Commander in Chief deprived of the assistance which he might obtain from the reports of inspectors, and were to decide promotions on what is called merit, how would he be able to select officers for the command of regiments without exposing himself to the |