year

The Committee divided:- Ayes 109; Noes 149: Majority 40.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 9 (Footway only to be made between Whitehall Stairs and Westminster Bridge).

MR. LOCKE said: I move that this

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: After the

omission of that clause; but when I saw
the great struggle made by private inter-
ests before the Committee, I considered
that at this period of the Session there
might be a risk of losing the Bill this
if we attempted the cure of this great and
fundamental defect. It seemed to me,
that as this clause was ingeniously pre-clause be omitted.
pared by the Committee, under pretence
of delaying the decision of Parliament, it
affirmed the permanent exclusion of the
public, and that by putting in the Amend-
ment which I contemplated, leaving the
matter to the future decision of Parlia-
ment, the defect might be for the present
cured, and that the Bill so passing would
leave it open to Parliament to do next
year what I trust and hope Parliament
will do next year-namely, to throw that
part of the road open between Whitehall
Stairs and Westminster Bridge as well as
the other. That course appeared to me
to be the best, because there was no chance

decision which the Committee has just come to upon the Motion of my hon. and learned Friend, of course I do not intend to propose my Amendment. I shall not, therefore, resist the Motion to omit the

clause.

Clause put and negatived.
Clauses 10 to 20 agreed to.

Clause 21 (Certain works to be first approved by the Conservators).

MR. GARNETT said, he would propose the addition of the following proviso, "Provided that, except with the previous consent of the Charing Cross Railway Company in writing under their common landing-place, shall be made within 200 seal, no stairs, hard, quay, wharf, pier, or yards of that company's steamboat pier or landing-place at Hungerford."

or possibility of that part of the road being
made before next year; and therefore, if
Parliament were next year to rescind the
restriction, no inconvenience would be
sustained by the public. That being the
case, as far as I am concerned, I adhere
to my proposal; and as my hon. and
learned Friend has fairly stated that his
object in striking out these words is to
lay the foundation for afterwards striking
out the 9th clause, and as my Amendment
implies the maintenance of that clause,
I could not consistently with my an
nouncement vote for this Amendment, I
shall vote, therefore, to retain these words.
MR. LOCKE said, it appeared, if he were
to go to a division, the noble Lord on the
Treasury bench would not vote with him,
and that placed him in an awkward posi-cated to Use of Public).

MR. COWPER said, he agreed with the
object of the Amendment; but he thought,
with the Thames Conservancy Act.
as it was framed, that it would interfere

tion. He did not think the course which

the noble Lord was taking was the right

one.

What the noble Lord meant by voting for the retention of the words was that at some future time the footway was to be turned into a roadway; but why not determine to turn it into a roadway at once? Why let the Bill go up to the other House saying, "Some day or other, when it is convenient to us, this footway shall become a roadway?" He did not know that the other House would like the Bill any better with such an introduction. After due consideration, therefore, he felt it his duty to divide the House.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."

MR. GARNETT said, that under the circumstances, he would withdraw the Amendment, and renew it in an amended form upon the Report.

Clause agreed to; as were also Clauses 22

to 27.

Clause 28 (Reclaimed Land to be dedi

MR. AUGUSTUS SMITH said, he

would propose, as an Amendment, the omission of words, for the purpose of enclaimed from the Thames should, without suring that all the portions of land reexception, be dedicated to the use of the public as places of recreation or ornamental grounds.

MR. COWPER said, that the effect of the Amendment would be to prevent certain portions of the reclaimed land from being employed for building purposes in aid of the Thames Embankment Fund. The Amendment would also interfere with other arrangements made with the view of saving the coal duties from heavy charges for compensation. He thought, however, that the discussion on the subject might

EAST GLOUCESTERSHIRE RAILWAY
BILL.-CONTEMPT OF THIS HOUSE.

REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE.

intention, upon the present occasion, to direct their Lordships' attention to the political aspect of the Italian question; but he could not refrain from pointing out that events were occurring in Italy which seemed to confirm the opinion which he had always expressed, that the result of the present confusion could never be that Italy should remain both independent and united, and he was very much afraid that it could not even remain independent. From what had within the last few days appeared

LORD PORTMAN reported from the Select Committee appointed to inquire into the Circumstances attending the Conduct of William Isaacs, Clerk to Mr. Boodle, Solicitor at Cheltenham, John Preston, Town Crier at Cheltenham, Robert Sole Lingwood, Solicitor at Cheltenham, Charles William Maisey, Clerk to the said Robert Sole Lingwood, and Wil-in papers of every shade of opinion, he liam Boodle, Solicitor at Cheltenham, with regard to the mode of obtaining signatures to the petition of Barbara Robinson, and others, of Cheltenham, presented on the 22nd of May last.

"That the Committee had met, and considered the Subject Matter referred to them, and had examined the said William Isaacs, John Preston, Robert Sole Lingwood, Charles William Maisey, and William Boodle, and report as follows:

"1. That the Conduct of the said William Isaacs, John Preston, Robert Sole Lingwood, Charles William Maisey, and William Boodle, in obtaining Signatures to the said Petition, does not indicate that they have been guilty of wilful Misrepresentation in respect thereof:

was induced to think that it was not unlikely that the Government at Turin were at this moment maturing alliances, and taking a course which, in order to maintain the grumbling unity of the country, would sacrifice its independence, and, perhaps, compromise the peace of Europe. It was not, however, his intention that evening to discuss either territorial arrangements or forms of government, but to bring under their Lordships' notice a case of practical injustice. His object was to call attention to the state of the political prisoners who were now confined at Naples. Since he gave notice of his intention to take this course, he had received, from a source to him most unexpected, strong confirmation as to the grievous nature of the evils of which these prisoners had to complain, and as to the extraordinary number of persons who were at this "4. That Robert Sole Lingwood and Charles moment suffering within the limits of William Maisey his Clerk ought to have been the Neapolitan kingdom under the tymore careful in the Instructions given to William Isaacs and John Preston, when they employed ranny and oppression of those whom them to obtain Signatures to the said Petition: they regarded as invaders. Within the "5. That Robert Sole Lingwood, as a Solicitor, last few days, Signor Ricciardi, a Neapowould have acted more prudently if he had paid litan deputy, of strong democratic opi attention to the Rumours communicated to himnions, stated in strong terms in the Par

"2. That William Isaacs was not sufficiently careful in the Explanations given by him, when obtaining Signatures, of the Nature and Objects

of the said Petition :

"3. That John Preston appears to have acted under the Belief that the Representations made by him in respect of the said Petition were

correct:

in reference to the said Petition:

"6. That the Committee see no Reason to im-liament at Turin that he thought it his pute any Blame whatever to Mr. Boodle; "And the Committee had directed the Minutes of Evidence taken before them to be laid before their Lordships."

Which Report being read by the Clerk; Ordered, That the said Report and Minutes of Evidence do lie on the table, and be printed [No. 161].

POLITICAL PRISONERS (NAPLES).

MOTION FOR PAPERS.

THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBY rose to call attention to the treatment of political prisoners at present in confinement in Naples, and to move for any information in the possession of Her Majesty's Government on the subject. It was not his

duty to call attention to the unfortunate condition of the Southern Italian Provinces. That gentleman made the startling assertion that at the present moment the prisons of Naples contained no fewer than 16,000 persons, who were confined in overcrowded cells, and suffered every kind of misery. When this statement was made in the Italian Parliament by Signor Ricciardi, it was not denied by Signor Ratazzi; but, on the following day, the Minister of Justice returned to the subject to express his conviction that the number of prisoners must have been exaggerated. Signor Ricciardi would not, however, abandon a single iota of his allegation, but repeated it in the most positive manner, adding that he derived his information from official docu

that we had no business to meddle with the internal affairs of another country; but that remark could scarcely proceed from the noble Lord the present Prime Minister of England, who was renowned for his aggravating interference with the domestic arrangements of other States, nor from the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, whose interference with the prisons of Naples under the former state of things had been severely condemned by the editor of a Neapolitan journal who was now a deputy. He would read to the House the very words lately published by M. Petrocello della Gattina, in which that sincere revolutionist spoke rather disparagingly of the nature of the assistance he and his party had derived from Mr. Gladstone—

ments. As the Minister of Justice no inanimate on the floor. By whatever name longer ventured to contradict it, they his noble Friend might choose to call these had a right to infer that it was true. soi-disant official visitors, it was important If so, what a wretched state of things to know whether this information had been did those figures disclose, and how un- forwarded to him. Such was probably the answerable was their pathetic eloquence. case, as he had heard no denial of the fact It was impossible to reconcile them with of torture in prison; but an attempt to the existence of any system which re- excuse it on the supposition that perhaps spected the rights of the people and the some of the old employés of the Bourbon liberty of the subject. And what was the Government remained! When the whole popular element that could be adduced on of the magistracy, 1,600 in number, had the other side? His noble Friend the been changed, notwithstanding Sir James Secretary for Foreign Affairs said, on a IIudson's statement that the magistracy former occasion, that the popular will, were irremovable, it was not very likely which had now found expression under a that the gaolers would remain the same, constitutional Government, was sufficient or that their presence could account for to preserve popular rights from invasion. a practice of which they had no previous But it was a very startling and signifi- experience. It might, perhaps, be said cant fact, that out of the population of 8,000,000 which was contained on the terra firma of the kingdom of Naples, only 25,000 persons could be induced to vote at the parliamentary elections, only one person in 320 of the population. So that while 16,000 persons were thrown into prison for resisting what was supposed to be the will of the people, that will was expressed by only 25,000 persons. It appeared also that the prisoners were now subjected to torture, in order to extract confessions from them. Much had been said about the prisons under the late régime, and, no doubt, great cruelties were then perpetrated by some of the subordinate officers under the pretence of enforcing prison discipline; but at least they were free from the charge of torturing prisoners for the purpose of extorting "It is time to have done with these fétiches. confession. He had upon a former occa- Poerio is a conventional invention of the Anglosion cited a statement, which had been French press. When we were agitating Europe, and exciting it against the Bourbons of Naples, published in France, made by these priwe wanted to personify the negation of that horsoners, asserting that the practice of tor-rible dynasty; we wanted to present every morn ture had been proved by one of its victims ing to the readers of Liberal Europe a living, in the presence of Commissioners sent by palpitating, visible victim, whom that ogro Ferthe British Government to examine into dinand used to devour raw at every meal. For this purpose we invented Poerio. The English these cases. His noble Friend opposite and French press excited the appetite of that had objected to the term "Commission- great philanthropist, Gladstone, who repaired to ers," and denied that any Commission had Naples to see with his own eyes this new sort of been sent for such a purpose. Subsequent moved, and like us he set to work to magnify information which he (the Marquess of the victim, in order to render the oppressor more Normanby) had received, had reiterated odious. He exaggerated the punishment, in order that persons saying they visited the prison the more to irritate public opinion, and Poerio with the authority of the English Ministry was created from top to toe. The real Poerio had heard from a Captain de Blasio the has taken seriously the Poerio whom we had been details of the cruel flagellation to which halfpence a line. Those also have taken him se fabricating for twelve years in articles at threche had been subjected with scourges of riously, who, without knowing anything about nerfs de bœuf, for the sake of extracting him, had read what we related about him." from him the names of the Bourbonist He did not believe that Signor Poerio was Committee. These executioners never better or worse than his companions. He ceased to strike till he was extended had, as had they all, the grievances of a

man in an iron mask. He saw him. He was

long imprisonment. But he the (Mar- count of the transactions to which he re| quess of Normanby) had an opportunity fers. Indeed, my noble Friend himself on the spot of collecting indisputable evi- does not seem to have any great store of dence that one of the instances of cruel information about them, or he would not treatment given to the public on official have entertained us with a reference to authority, was the corrupt invention of a affairs so long past as the treatment of worthless informant of the British Lega- Baron Poerio, and the other persons whose tion. Whatever had formerly been the oppression by the late Government has abuses in these prisons, it was impossible been so vividly described by Mr. Gladstone. to deny that they had all been aggravated He referred to Baron Poerio's imprisonunder the present system. He hoped ment, which certainly does not seem to the noble Earl the Foreign Secretary have much or anything to do with the would give a careful and explicit answer; treatment of political prisoners under the but he could not refrain from reminding present Government. My noble Friend the House that they had had two striking says that Baron Poerio is entirely a mythiinstances in the present Session of the cal personage-an invention of ours; all want of information by the noble Earl in I can say to that is, that I have seen Baron matters pertaining to Italy. He had Poerio as a living personage. I believe he asked a question about a particular pro- has at all times been considered a person clamation, and the noble Earl replied that of great truth and respectability, and I he was sure such a document could not be certainly heard from him that he was ten in existence, because Sir James Hudson years in prison-not, perhaps, in a dungeon had never communicated the fact to him. underground, as some persons have stated It turned out that such a proclamation with considerable exaggeration, but still had been issued, and a Motion for papers strictly confined-so strictly that no news of for other proclamations of a similar nature what was passing externally ever reached led to the avowal on the part of Sir James him with the permission of the Neapolitan Hudson that of all these proclamations Government. I have also conversed with in force last year he had never said one several other gentlemen, and one of them, word to the Secretary of State. These to whom I expressed my regret that he proceedings, of which the noble Earl re- should have been ten years confined in mained in contented ignorance, had caused prison, said to me, " It is true that I have the telegraph from the Emperor of the been harshly confined for ten years, but French, that if the Sardinian Government I would rather have been confined for ten went on in that way, the sympathies of years longer than that the detestable GoEurope would be alienated from their vernment under which I suffered should be cause. The second instance was in the restored." That shows at least the sense matter of the press prosecutions, when the which that gentleman entertained of the noble Earl was equally wrong in giving nature of the former Government. With a denial, and founding it upon a statement regard to the other stories into which the of Count Cavour some time before, that noble Marquess entered, it is scarcely nethe Opposition press might publish what- cessary for me to refer to them at length. ever they pleased, when it had since been If he will read Mr. Gladstone's letters proved that accumulated prosecutions, lead again, he will find there statements to show ing to sentences of unequalled severity, had that the former Government of Naples was been instituted by the Government of Count as detestable a Government as ever existed Cavour and his successors against all jour-on the face of the globe. For my own nals that attempted to assert the liberty of the press in that free country. The noble Marquess concluded by moving an Address for

"Copies or Extracts of any Letters, Reports, or Information of any shape, received by the Secretary of State, as to the Treatment of Political Prisoners at present in Confinement at Naples."q109

EARL RUSSELL: I am sorry that the information which I have to give to the noble Marquess is of the most meagre kind, because I really have not received any ac

part, I must say, as I have said before, that I heartily rejoice in its overthrow; and I should much regret if on the face of the globe, especially in Europe, there should exist a Government so cruel and so corrupt, which introduced among its subjects such habits of falsehood and subornation, and at the same time committed against them such atrocious acts of injustice. These are my opinions. I know my noble Friend differs from them; but I do not feel, as he does, any sort of doubt that Italy will make great progress as a