1858, £5,000,000 more; then there was another operation of £2,000,000 by the Mirès loan; and now there was the new loan of £8,000,000-in all, £23,000,000. The result of these constant additions to the foreign debt was that the stock was continually falling in the market. The armed interference of the Porte in Montenegro was most unwise, and could only result in a useless expenditure of life and money. With regard to the events that had recently happened in Servia, he wished to ask whether, in firing on the town as he had done, faith had been broken with the English and European Consuls by the Pacha of Belgrade or not? The Porte had sent a pacha to Belgrade who was so ignorant that he knew no language but his own; and the consequence of his ignorance and bigotry was the troubles that had ensued. It was an anomaly unknown in any other part of the nominal dominions of the Sultan for the suzerain power to maintain a garrison in the capital city of the dependent State, and a fortress, the guns of which were actually within range of the prince's palace. He therefore desired to know from the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether, as a member of a Liberal Government, he was going to justify the proceedings of the Governor of Belgrade. It was very important that Her Majesty's Government should direct their attention to the subject, because, as far as their own selfish interests alone were concerned, they must be aware, that if intestine war were to break out in that portion of the Continent, there was great danger of its spreading into the neighbouring countries, and there was no knowing how far the other countries of Europe might become involved in the strife. He thought that the question deserved the dispassionate consideration of the Government. He asked, therefore, if there was any objection on the part of the Government to produce the correspondence relating to Servia? Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words " an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, that She will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid before this House, a Copy of any Correspondence which has taken place between Lord Hobart and the Turkish Loan Commission, relative to the extinction of paper money at Constantinople," -instead thereof. The the House would not expect him to follow the hon. Gentleman through his essay upon Turkish finance, for which, as he was not the Turkish Chancellor of the Exchequer, he was in no way responsible. So far as he was aware, there was no intention on the part of the Turkish Government to conquer new territory, or to reconquer any that she might have lost; and with regard to her proceedings in Servia and Montenegro, she had done nothing in infringement of any treaty or obligation by which she was bound to those states. As to the progress made by Lord Hobart and the Turkish Loan Commission, he (Mr. Layard) could not be expected to give information as to what might have occurred from day to day. Foreign Office knew nothing of the matter; but when the operation was fully carried out, he supposed Lord Hobart's duties would cease, and that he would return to this country and give an account of his share in the transaction; but they were not kept informed from day to day what the Commission was doing. The hon. Gentleman said that a scheme had been put forward for the redemption of the paper money. He was not there to criticise that scheme. All he knew was, that it had received due consideration at the hands of the Commissioners, and been accepted by them; and he was told that it was likely to effect the object for which it was introduced. That was all the information he was in a condition to give to the hon. Gentleman on the subject. He could not furnish the correspondence that had taken place in reference to Servia. When the events to which the hon. Member alluded took place at Belgrade, the Turkish Government immediately recalled the pacha who was alleged to have been the cause of them, and sent there one of the most distinguished statesmen in their service, who, in conjunction with the representatives of the other Powers, was engaged in carrying on a thorough investigation into the circumstances which led to those unhappy occurrences, upon which, when the facts were in the possession of the Government, they would be in a position to express an opinion; but while that investigation was going on, it was obvious that it would be most improper to lay upon the table statements which were merely ex parte. Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question," MR. LAYARD said, he felt sure that put, and agreed to, INDIA.-QUESTION. THE NAVAL COMMANDER IN CHIEF IN ralty whether there was any truth in the rumour that several distinguished officers had, in consequence of the reduction to which he adverted, objected to go out to India as naval commanders in chief, feeling that their means would not enable them to undergo the expense attendant on the appointment. The officer who now served in that capacity was, no doubt, a very able man, but he never had had the advantage of commanding a fleet previously, or of having performed the distinguished service by which officers hitherto selected for the appointment had been characterized. He might add that the military Commander in Chief and the Commanders of Presidencies received from £8,000 to £10,000 a year, or five times the sum paid to the naval Commander in Chief. Under these circumstances, he hoped to receive some satisfactory assurance from the Secretary to the Admiralty on the subject. SIR JOHN HAY said, he rose to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty, If it is the intention of the Admiralty to make any increase in the pay and allowances to the Naval Commander in Chief in India in consequence of the stoppage of the allowance hitherto paid as batta to the Naval Commander in Chief by the Indian Government if any inconvenience has arisen in the selection of an Officer for that command in consequence of this reduction of pay? and, to move an Address for Return of the pay and allowances of the Military Officer in Her Majesty's Forces in India of similar rank to the Naval Commander in Chief in India. The right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for India had, owing to some embarrassment in the finances of the country, thought fit to reduce the pay of certain naval officers serving in India, and among them that of the naval Commander and others, to the extent of £8,000 a year. Without going into details, he might observe that the pay of the Admiral commanding in chief on the Indian station was, up to a recent date £5,221 a year, and that by a stroke of the pen the sum had been reduced to £2,190, or by considerably more than half the amount of the salary which he had hitherto received. It had been the custom to pay a certain amount to the naval Commander in Chief as batta money, and the commodore received half that sum, and the other officers in proportion. The whole of those allowances had now been taken away. He should not have alluded to the subject, had it not been-and the gallant Admiral the Member for Devonport would bear him out in the statement-that under ordinary circumstances it was impossible for the naval Commander in Chief in India to perform the duties of his station and pay the expenses which necessarily devolved upon him for a sum of less than £2,000 a year; and whoever accepted that command under existing circumstances would, in all probability, be £400 or £500 a year out of pocket in the performance of his duty to the Crown. That the naval commander should be placed in such a position could not be, he felt assured, the wish of the House. It might be said that the amount was sufficient, inasmuch as there was no difficulty in procuring officers to fill the command; but he should like to know from the Secretary for the Admi SIR MICHAEL SEYMOUR said, he was enabled to confirm all that had fallen from his hon. and gallant Friend. The naval Commander in Chief in India and China would in future have to serve under a salary of less than half the amount formerly paid, while the expenses in that part of the world were larger than the expenses of any other station. He trusted that the subject would receive the attention of the Admiralty, and that the injustice alluded to would be removed. LORD CLARENCE PAGET said, it was perfectly true that an allowance called batta money used to be granted to all classes of officers of the navy while serving in the Indian waters, but that it had ceased and determined ever since the transference of the Government of India to the Crown. There was no doubt that the position of the naval Commander in Chief in India was therefore very much less advantageous in point of pay than it was before; but it should also be remembered that the circumstances of the present day were no longer precisely what they were when the batta money was granted. In those days they had a squadron in the Indian seas. Undoubtedly living was very expensive in India, and it was thought fit that naval officers should have allowances in consequence; but at the present time the Admiral on the Indian station was practically stationed at China, and there was no necessity for him to visit India. Then came the question whether, these allowances having been SIR JOHN HAY said, he wished to say one word in explanation. It was far from his intention to cast any slur upon the present naval Commander in Chief in India. What he meant to say was, that it used to be the practice to appoint to that command only such persons as had served as flag officers, and that though the gallant Admiral had distinguished himself in China, he had not attained that position. done away with by the Indian Govern- | same allowances as officers of correspondment, the Admiralty should recommend ing rank in the army. He understood any allowances in lieu of the batta money. that his hon and gallant Friend did not Upon what principle was the Admiral press for the Returns, and he hoped, thereserving upon that station to be paid very fore, that he would be satisfied with the considerably more than the admirals on explanation he had given. other stations? If on the ground of the cost of living, he would only say that that cost was very high at the Cape of Good Hope, where there was an Admiral, and also on the West India station; and he could scarcely think it right, therefore, that the Admiralty should select India as a favoured station, at which a higher rate of pay should be given than at others, without any sufficient reason. Such, at all events, was the principle on which the Admiralty proceeded in not proposing extra allowances for the naval officer in command in India and China. The hon. and gallant Gentleman had asked whether the Admiralty had found any inconvenience in getting officers to take the command in India and China in consequence of the reduction, and he was sorry that the hon. and gallant Gentleman, in referring to that point, had cast some reflection upon the Admiral who had recently taken command of the India and China station. SIR JOHN HAY denied he had cast any reflection upon the gallant Admiral. THE DIPLOMATIC SERVICE. OBSERVATIONS. MR. BAILLIE COCHRANE said, he rose to call the attention of the House to the Report of the Select Committee on the Diplomatic Service. All who had read that Report must, he thought, have been struck with the unanimity which prevailed among the witnesses who gave evidence before the Committee, and with the vast mass of valuable information which the Report contained. They must also have observed with pleasure the great interest which LORD CLARENCE PAGET, said he had been taken by all our Foreign Secretaunderstood the hon. and gallant Gentle- ries in the welfare of the diplomatic serman to have said that he was not so dis- vice. A Report having been made by the tinguished an officer as others who had Select Committee, based upon the evidence gone before him, and upon that point he of distinguished public men, he thought must beg to differ with him. The gallant it was not out of place to ask the GovernAdmiral had greatly distinguished himself ment, before the close of the Session, whein China. [Sir JOHN HAY: Hear, hear!] ther they intended to carry out the sugWith regard to the difficulty of finding gestions embodied in the Report. It was officers to take the command in India, the remarkable, that while the expenditure of station was one with respect to which every other department of the public serthere would always be some difficulty. It vice had been increased one-third during was not everybody who wished to go to so the last thirty years, the expenditure of the remote a quarter of the world, and one or diplomatic profession had been reduced two officers to whom it was intended to by a very considerable amount. Although offer the command had declined to accept the Army Estimates had been increased it on the score of health-possibly, also, by £4,000,000 within the last few years, because of reasons connected with their only a very small addition had been made private affairs. Practically, however, to the rank and file. The increased exthere had been on the part of the Admiralty no difficulty in finding an officer to take the command on the China station, and it was not the character of the service for officers to make any difficulty in going anywhere they were ordered. It was impossible to continue the batta money to officers of the navy in India unless they had duties on shore; but if they were employed on shore, they would receive the pense had been caused by the provision of additional comforts to the army, and the same remark applied to the navy. In the diplomatic service the case was far otherwise; for although the business had increased no less than sevenfold since 1830, at which date the number of despatches which passed through the Foreign Office was 10,000 per annum, whereas it was now something like 75,000, and although a large additional number of gentlemen expenditure. The House might not, perhad entered the profession, the number haps be aware that Ambassadors and of attachés being now one-third greater Ministers were the only public servants than it used to be, yet the expenditure who were not allowed even one month's of the service had been reduced to a much leave of absence without a deduction larger extent than was ever contemplated from their salaries. Such an arrangeby Parliament. In 1825 the expenditure ment as that was very bad; it was bitupon the diplomatic service exceeded terly complained of, and he thought the £300,000 a year; in 1830 it was House would agree with him that two £230,000; but now it was no more than months' leave of absence should be granted about £180,000. The profits of the pro- without any reduction of salary. The fession had been diminished, while the whole additional expense would not excost of living in all the European capitals ceed £7,000 or £8,000 a year. He behad been nearly doubled, and while, at lieved it was intended that there should the same time, the business had been be no unpaid attachés. A Vote of £2,300 enormously increased. If the expenditure would be presented to the House before could have been reduced with justice the close of the Session, and he hoped it to the gentlemen who had entered the would be passed without opposition. Anservice, nobody would have a word to say other point of importance was embodied against the arrangement; but when every in the sixth recommendation, which was— witness examined before the Select ComThat, whenever it is practicable and fit, a mittee declared that those gentlemen were residence for a term of years should be secured very insufficiently paid, and that justice for the British Embassy or Mission, the rent and was not done to them, it became the duty repairs to be defrayed at the public expense.” of the House of Commons to give its at- He thought that a deduction should be tention to the subject, and take care that made from the salary of an Ambassador it did not countenance the continuance or Minister for house rent; but it was of an unwise economy. The Select Com- most important that there should be a mittee had made seven recommendations, fixed residence in every capital, in order the first of which related to the exami- that the representatives of Her Majesty nation of attachés. Upon that subject a abroad might not be put to unnecessary good deal of evidence was taken, and all expense. The French system in this the witnesses agreed in thinking that the respect was much better than our own. system of examination should not be The last suggestion of the Select Compressed too far. Mr. Elliot stated that mittee wasa man accustomed to good society was the person best fitted for the diplomatic service. The Earl of Clarendon declared that many qualities were required which could not be tested by an examination. Sir Andrew Buchanan made a remark of the same kind, while Earl Russell admitted that there were great practical inconveniences in the examination of at tachés. It was essential, of course, that no incompetent person should be appointed, but the Civil Service Commissioners should not be allowed to interfere too much with candidates. The next three recommendations of the Select Committee boro simply upon the regulations of the Foreign Office, and he would not trouble the House with any remarks on them. But then came a very important suggestion be directed to the salaries and allowances of the "That the attention of the Secretary of State larger missions, with the view of considering whether they are adequate to meet greatly increased expenditure of living at the principal European capitals." Upon that point the evidence was strong, unanimous, and conclusive. Lord Stratford de Redcliffe was asked "Do you consider the efficiency of the service has suffered from its not being so profitable as a career, or as not presenting so good an opening as other professions?" He replied— ་་ I cannot undertake to say, as far as my experience has gone, that it has so suffered; there is, generally such a spirit among the gentlemen employed that they would rather make sacrifices out of their own means than allow the service to suffer; but it is hardly fair to leave an opening for such sacrifices. To speak from conjecture, should presume that adequate remuneration, and the prospect of high eventual prizes, would obtain for the public a greater command of talent. I think that the appointments should be sufficient for the due performance of the duties, and that any individual employed in the diplomatic service on terms of society with the native gentlemen; of Her Majesty's Government should be placed an ambassador with those of the first rank, and an envoy with those of the class generally." The following was from the examination of the Earl of Malmesbury: 66 In your Lordship's administration were there frequently complaints on the part of the diplomatic body as to the inadequacy of their salaries to support their position in a proper manner ?-A great many." "Do you remember what were the main grounds on which those complaints were founded?-Principally the great increase of prices everywhere, in both hemispheres. The increase of prices in South America is astonishing. We also know that at Paris everything has increased 40 per cent within our recent recollection. That, I believe, was the principal ground which they put forward when they stated that their salaries were not sufficient, and that they were obliged to trench upon their private means.' Earl Russell said our representatives abroad were not sufficiently paid. Earl Cowley stated that he was out of pocket every year, while Sir A. Buchanan frankly told the Committee that his expenses in Madrid exceeded his salary by £1,000 per annum, and that he had been obliged to borrow a sum of money. The Earl of Clarendon gave the following evidence: "Do you consider that the present pay of heads of missions is sufficient?-I am sure that it is not. The scale of salaries, I believe, was fixed thirty or forty years ago, and I believe very properly and fairly, and even liberally, with reference to the prices of the necessaries and comforts, and perhaps even the luxuries, of life; but I believe that there is no part of Europe, or America either, in which the prices of all those things have not risen from 40 to 60 or 70 per cent; consequently the rate at which the salaries were fixed thirty or forty years ago can be hardly fair now although they were fair then, and I believe that many Ministers are put to very considerable straits." He thought it essential to the position and influence of a country that its diplomatic servants should be able to entertain. There could not be better evidence on that point than that of the noble Lord at the head of the Government. Before the Official Salaries Committee the noble Lord stated that no man could live in Paris on £10,000 a year. Earl Granville spent a great deal more. Let the House compare the salaries paid by England with those paid by other countries. The French Ambassador in London received 300,000f., or £12,000 a year; the French Mininster at St. Petersburg also received £12,000 per annum. It was not fair to place a representative in a capital-for instance, Lord Napier at St. Petersburg-on a scale of salary which would not allow him to receive in the same manner as the French ambassador. That was a hardship. It was no answer to say that plenty of gen tlemen would be glad to undertake the office with its present conditions. England was a great country, and it ought to be represented with due dignity. While diplomacy in France cost £150,000 a year, it only cost England £140,000; and to make that up, about £12,000 which used to stand on the consular had been placed on the diplomatic charges. Parliament allowed £180,000 for the diplomatic service and pensions, but, instead of that, sometimes not more than £160,000 was spent, and therefore there had been £130,000 saved out of the diplomatic expenditure and applied to the Consolidated Fund during the last seven years. He did not think he was asking too much of the Government to support his views, and of the House of Commons to adopt them. If this year it was impossible to do anything in raising the salaries of these most deserving public servants, he hoped the Government would, at all events, concede one point, and allow two months' leave of absence without any deductions from their salary. Everybody admitted how admirably the diplomatic service of the country had been carried out in recent times-without forgetting the services of Lord Stratford de Redcliffe-by such men as Lord Lyons, Lord Napier, Earl Cowley, Sir Henry Bulwer, and Sir James Hudson. It was only, therefore, simple justice that the Report of the Select Committee should be carried into effect. MR. THOMSON HANKEY seconded the Motion. MR. LAYARD said, he would admit that the hon. Gentleman had made a very fair and impartial statement to the House. The Committee which sat last year on the diplomatic service was composed of hon. Gentlemen of great experience. They went very fully into the subject, and, after a long investigation, the Committee made a Report which contained seven recommendations. The Foreign Office were desirous of carrying out all those recommendations, which no doubt were entirely warranted by the evidence. To some extent they were put forward by Earl Russell himself; they received the almost unanimous adhesion of the members of the Committee; and the Foreign Office would have acted in accordance with the feelings of the Committee if they had been able to carry out all their recommendations at once. But it must be recollected that the Foreign Office did not hold the pursestrings, and after due consideration it was |