appointments by successive filtrations, but thought it might be pushed too far. He wished ["it t" stricken out] the expedient to be resorted to only in the appointment of the second branch of the Legislature, and in the Executive & judiciary branches of the Government. He thought too that the great fabric to be raised would be stable and durable if it["s" stricken out] should rest on the solid foundation of the people themselves, than if should stand merely on the pillars of the Legislatures. always it Λ more MG["h" stricken out]erry did not like the election by the people. The maxims taken from the British constitution were often fallacious when applied to our situation which was extremely different. Experience he said had shewn that the State Legislatures drawn immediately from the people did not possess their confidence. He had no objection however to an election by the people if it were so qualified that men of honor & character might not be unwilling to be joined in the appointments. He seemed to think the people might nominate a certain number ["ought" stricken out] of which the State legislatures should be bound to choose. thought out Mr Butler ["opposed" stricken out] an election by the people [illegible word stricken out] an impracticable mode. On the question for an election of the first branch of the national Legislature, by the [illegible word stricken out] people, Mass' ay. Connect div N. York ay. N. Jersey no. Pen ay. Delaw div Va ay. N. C. ay. S. C. no. Georg ay. remaing of Resolution 4th. The Clauses relating to the qualifications of members of Λ being the National Legislature postp nem. con. as entering too much into detail for general propositions; Committee proceeded to Resolution 5. The ["next proposition discussed was" stricken out] "that Λ the second, [or senatorial] branch of the National Legislature ought to "should" stricken out] be chosen by the first branch out of Λ persons nominated by the State Legislatures". M: Spaight contended that the 2 branch ought to be chosen by the State Legislatures and moved ["for such" stricken out] an amendment to that effect. Mr Butler apprehended that the taking so many powers out of the hands of the States as was proposed, tended to destroy and security all that balance of interests among the States which it was necessary to preserve; and called on M Randolph the mover of the propositions, to explain the extent of his ideas, and particularly the number of members he meant to assign this second branch. to Mr Rand! observed that he had at the time of offering his propositions stated his ideas as far as the nature of general propositions required; that details made no part of the plan, and could not perhaps with propriety have been introduced. If he was to give an opinion as to the number of the second branch, he should say that it ought to be much smaller than that of the first; so small as to be exempt from the passionate proceedings to which numerous assemblies ["were", stricken out] liable. He observed that the general object was to provide a cure for the evils under which the U. S. labored; that in tracing these evils to their ["source" stricken out] every origin Λ are A man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy: that some check therefore was to be sought for agst this tendency of our Governments: and that a good Senate seemed most likely to answer the purpose. M King reminded the Committee that the choice of the second branch as proposed [by M Spaight] viz. by the State Legislatures would be impracticable, unless it was to be very be Λ numerous, or the idea of proportion among the States was to be disregarded. According to this idea, there must So or 100 members to entitle Delaware to the choice of one of them.— M Spaight ["hereupon" stricken out] withdrew his motion. Mr Wilson opposed both a nomination by the State Legislatures, and an election by the first branch of the national Legislature, because the second branch of the latter, ought to be independent of both. He thought both branches of the National Legislature ought to be chosen by the people, but was not prepared with a specific proposition. He suggested the mode of chusing the Senate of N. York. ["as" stricken election uniting several districts, for one branch, in A out] to wit of ["enlarging the districts" stricken out] chusing members for the other branch, as good model. the same Λ within a Mr Madison observed that such a mode would destroy the influence of the smaller States associated with larger ones in ["a" stricken out] district; as the latter would [“be sure to" stricken out] chuse from ["among" stricken out] themselves, altho' better men might be found in the former. The election of Senators in Virg where large & small counties one were often formed into district for the purpose, had illus consequence A trated this [illegible word stricken out] Local partiality, ofteh A would often prefer a resident within the County or State, to a candidate [“resident” stricken out] of superior merit residing out of it. Less ["er" stricken out] merit also in a resident would be more known throughout his own ["County or" stricken out] State. M: Sherman favored an election of one member by each of the State Legislatures, M: Pinkney moved to strike out the "nomination by the State Legislatures". On this question. *this question the printed omitted in ["printed Offi [this note to be in cial" stricken the bottom margin] out] Journal; & *Massts no. Cont no. N. Y. no. N. J. the votes ["erro-110. N. J. no. Pen no. ["N. J." stricken out] Del. neously" stricken out] applied to div Va no. N. C. no. S. C. no Georg no. the succeeding one, instead of the votes as here stated. whole Λ On the question for electing by the first branch out of nominations by the State Legislatures, Mass. ay. Con no. N. Y. no. N. Jersey. no. Pen? no. Del. no. Virga ay. N. C. no. Ga no. S. C. ay. So the clause was disagreed to & a chasm left in this part Λ The ["clause" stricken out] stating the cases in which the national Legislature ought to legislate was next taken into discussion. On the question whether each branch sh originate laws, there was an unanimous affirmative without debate. On the question for transferring all the Legislative powers of the Cong to this Assembly, there was also a silent affirmative nem. con. existing Λ proposition On the ["question" stricken out] for giving "Legislative power in all cases to which the State Legislatures were individually incompetent”. an M["Butler" stricken out]. Pinkney, & M! Rutledge objected to the vagueness of the term incompetent, and said they could not well decide how to vote until they should see ["a more" stricken out] exact enumeration of the powers comprehended by this definition. Mr Butler repeated his fears that we were running into an extreme in taking away the powers of the States, and called on M Randolp for the extent of his meaning. disclaimed Mr Randolph any intention to give indefinite powers to the national Legislature, declaring that he was entirely opposed to such an inroad on the State jurisdictions, and that he did not think any considerations whatever could ever change his determination. His opinion was fixed on this point. brought bias M Madison said that he had brought with him into the Convention a strong ["biass" stricken out] in favor of an enemeration and definition of the powers necessary to be exercised by the national Legislature; but had also ["brought grave" stricken out] doubts concerning its practicability. Iis wishes remained unaltered; but his doubts had become stronger. What his opinion might ultimately be he could not yet tell. But he should shrink from nothing which ["he" stricken out] should be found essential to such a form of Gov! as would provide for the safety, liberty and happiness of the Community. This being the end of all our deliberations, all the necessary means for attaining must, however reluctantly, be submitted to. it A On the question for giving ["the" stricken out] powers, in cases to which the States are not competent, Massts ay. Con div [Sharman no Elseworth ay] N. Y. ay. N. J. ay. Pa ay. Del. ay. Va ay. N. C. ay, S. Carolina ay. Georg ay. The other clauses giving powers necessary to preserve harmony among the States ["and so forth" stricken out] to negative all State laws contravening in the opinion of the Nat Leg the articles of Union down to the last clause, Λ Λ (the words "or any treaties subsisting under the authority of the Union", being added after the words "contravening &c. the articles of the Union"; on motion of Dr. Franklin) were debate agreed to with ["objection" stricken out] or dissent. Resolution 6. authorizing last of ["proposition 6. concerning" stricken out] The clause ["proposing" stricken out] an exertion of Λ Λ A the force of the whole agst a delinquent State came next into consideration. M Madison, observed that the more he reflected on the |