I am not going to weary honorable members by making a speech on this occasion which may more appropriately be made when the Defence Estimates are under review. But I want to ask honorable members to listen to such a reply as the Minister may vouchsafe to the inquiry, "What channel has he for ascertaining definitely the adequacy or otherwise of the British Navy at the present juncture?" We know that there are troubles in Europe which at any moment may embroil the great Powers, and with them our own Empire. In the event of such a contingency arising--and it is by no means unlikely it is a matter of supreme importance to Australia that the British Navy shall be equal to its responsibilities. I venture to say that in this Australia of ours it is quite impossible to get an answer to so simple an inquiry as, "What steps have been taken in regard to reinforcing the Mediterranean Squadron ?" It is held by some persons in England that to reinforce that Squadron at the present juncture will be to vitally weaken the North Sea Fleet, and so expose the heart of the Empire to a sudden attack from Germany. When one looks at the figures relating to the naval strength of the two Powers, one sees that there may be some reason for this contention. I find that, during the present month, Great Britain has only thirteen Dreadnoughts in the North Sea, as against eleven German Dreadnoughts if the three recently building are in commission, and only three battle cruisers as against three German battle cruisers if battle cruisers

It

have been sent to the Mediterranean. will be seen, therefore, that the numbers are approximately equal, and as a crisis may arrive at any moment

Mr. HowE.-What can we do?

Mr. KELLY.-We can take an intelligent interest in our own affairs by endeavouring to ascertain whether or not the Imperial Navy is really adequate to our necessities. After all, Australia would be the spoils to the victor in any European war. The mere fact that we have a Labour party in Australia would not be sufficient to warn off all comers who want this land. Yet the honorable member for Dalley inquires, "What business is it of ours? Why

should we bother?" It is a matter of vast importance to us; and yet we have absolutely no machinery to enable us to ascertain exactly how the British Navy is faring in regard to its world-wide responsibilities. I do suggest to the Minister of External Affairs that he

ought to exhaust all the opportunities at his command to follow up these external problems so thoroughly and constantly that in Australia at any moment we may be able to obtain the same information as may be imparted by a responsible Minister in the House of Commons. The mere fact that our country is called Australia, and another part of the Empire is known as the United Kingdom, will not avail us one whit should the Empire fail. Therefore, it is a matter of supreme importance that we, who are charged with the safety of the Australian people, should know exactly what dispositions are being made to keep over our heads that Imperial roof under which we have been nurtured through our century of life. Coming to that side of the Department of External Affairs which is regarded as important in this Committee-I refer to the Northern Territory-I cannot help thinking that the administration of that Territory has reached a rather ridiculous pass during recent times. We all know what happened in connexion with the Northern Territory Lands Ordinance. It was passed through the Cabinet at the instance of the Minister, with all the courage of a Czar, and was contemptuously kicked out We know what the Government are doing a fortnight later by the Legislature. in regard to the question of alien labour honorable member for New England prein the Territory. I am glad to see the sent, because his courage in bringing forward this matter caused him to be sub

jected to a most unworthy criticism and to a cowardly attack by his friends only a month ago.

Mr. RILEY.-The honorable member is trying to give him a bit of "kid " now.

Mr. KELLY.-I will leave the scoffers to their own laughter. I think it will be generally recognised by the public that the honorable member for New England deserves a good deal of their good-will for having the courage to stand up to his own Caucus in the place where the public sent him to speak the truth, namely, the Pailiament of Australia. On that occasion he was told that he ought to have brought the matter up in Caucus-that it was unfair to bring it up in this Chamber.

Mr. HowE.-Who told the honorable member that?

Mr. KELLY.-Honorable members opposite told us in the course of the debate which ensued. The party whip was cracked over his head

Mr. GROOM.-He preferred the "child's play."

Mr. KELLY.-Yes. I recollect that one honorable member interjected that what the honorable member for New England received in this Chamber was mere "child's play" compared with what he would receive upstairs.

Mr. BENNETT.-No, no.

Mr. KELLY.-The fact is upon record. When the honorable member for Gwydir supported the honorable member for New England and spoke the truth as it was in him in regard to the Northern Territory, what thanks did he get? The stockwhip of the honorable member for Maranoa, who spoke, I presume, as Acting Government Whip! In short, he received abuse from a number of honorable members opposite for venturing to point out the self-evident fact that the Government's administration of the Northern Territory is nothing but a howling farce.

The CHAIRMAN. · The honorable member is not in order in referring to a debate which took place some time ago.

Mr. KELLY.-I admit that I was transgressing. I would like now to point to one or two farcical aspects of the statesmanship exhibited by the Government in their administration of the Northern Territory.

Let me mention in this connexion the alien labour question. That question first received statesmanlike recognition when the Government decided to abolish the Chinese laundry in the Territory. There was a laundry there which was run by Chinamen, and it was abolished.

Mr. SINCLAIR.-No fear.
Mr. KELLY.-Really.

RICHARD

Mr. nationalized.

Mr. KELLY.-No, it was abolished. White laundrymen were specially taken up from Melbourne to start a laundry there. Mr. THOMAS.-When?

Mr. KELLY.-The Minister, if he knows anything of his Department, can easily ascertain the date.

Mr. THOMAS.-I will be glad if the honorable member will give me the information.

Mr. KELLY.-The Minister, I take it, started a white laundry in the Northern Territory.

Mr. THOMAS.-When?

Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-I understand that the item appears upon the Estimates.

Mr. KELLY.-The honorable gentleman's colleague gave an excuse for the washing of Chinese clothing in a white. laundry; and this will be found in the records of the Senate. It is obvious that a Chinese laundry is an iniquitous thing, and means competition with the white worker; but we may fill the Government House in the Northern Territory with Chinese servants, and send their clothes to be washed at a white laundry!

Mr. GREENE.-And a Chinaman is printing the Government Gazettel Mr. THOMAS.-Who said so? Mr. KELLY.-The honorable member for New England, whom I regard as an accurate authority on the question, he having given the matter great personal consideration and inquiry.

Mr. THOMAS.-Of course, the honorable member knows that the Government Gazette

is issued by a private person?

Mr. KELLY.-Yes, but subsidized by the Government. How the Minister can

twist!

Mr. W. H. IRVINE.-The Government Gazette in the Northern Territory is in the same position as the Labour Call.

Mr. KELLY.-Exactly, but in this case it is an honest Chinaman who is running the institution!

Mr. HowE.-How does the honorable member know? Is he a friend of the Chinaman?

Mr. KELLY.-Unlike the honorable member, I have not been to the Northern Territory. On page 244 of the Estimates we find an item of £1,000 for the erection, and equipment of a steam laundry. That was passed two months ago, and probably we shall have the building about ten years hence. However, the fact remains that the laundry itself has been established for some time, and it seems to me utterly ridiculous that we should prevent Chinese laundrymen in Australia earning their

living and yet permit white laundrymen to wash the clothes of Chinese servants. It strikes me as the height of absurdity.

We ought to have something like a reasoned policy in regard to the Northern Territory, but we have had absolutely none as yet. A vast number of adherents of the political cause of honorable members opposite have been appointed to well-paid positions-a number of them to very well-paid positions. We had the wildest anxiety on the part of the united party opposite to obtain the services of Mr. Nielsen, who was becoming very inconvenient to the New South Wales Government, his views on the land question being out of all harmony with those of the State Government. That gentleman was afterwards sent at the public expense to America.

The CHAIRMAN. The honorable member must not discuss anything in connexion with the arrangements of the New South Wales Government.

Mr. KELLY.—I am discussing this particular person, who was sent to America by the New South Wales Government, and who is acting in that country as a distributor of Commonwealth advertisements, though at his own request, certainly. Under the circumstances, I think I am in order in referring to Mr. Nielsen, and I am certainly in order in referring to the wild anxiety of the Minister of External Affairs to get Mr. Nielsen to take on the job of

land administrator in the Northern Terri

tory. I am inclined to think, although I do not know Mr. Nielsen's successor, that the Minister did not suffer any great misfortune in not succeeding in obtaining Mr. Nielsen's services. I cannot help thinking that Mr. Nielsen's views on the land question are altogether too fanatical and extreme to insure any reasonable discretion if he occupied such a position of high authority.

Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-There is no difference in that respect between Mr. Nielsen and Mr. Ryland.

Mr. KELLY.-Mr. Ryland, of course, is qualified to go to the Northern Territory! Did he not take some leading part in the strike in Queensland? I understand that Mr. Ryland was walking about Syd

ney with a strike ticket in his hat last year as a strike delegate. I know that there are extenuating circumstances in connexion with his appointment, because he stood as a candidate in the Labour interest, and was eminently qualified, therefore, to draw a large Government salary ever afterwards. The point is, however, to get the very best man we can to administer the lands in the Northern Territory. The work of the Lands Administrator is not easy, but very involved and difficult; and the Government could think of nothing better than to throw the position as a sort of sop to a political adherent. It is something in the nature of a scandal that such a man should be singled out for political favours, and sent to administer so valuable a Possession.

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There is one more point to which I desire to refer. It has always been usual for Ministers to make a statement in introducing the Estimates of their several Departments; but we are now treated more cavalierly than ever in the past. We are entitled to information as to what the Government propose to do with regard to honouring the agreement with South Australia, especially in connexion with building the north and south transcontinental line, or alternatively as to what other lines they propose. This is a matter of large policy, committing us to an expenditure of some £4,500,000. There is, I think, an understanding-in my opinion, very bad agreement-with South Australia, binding us down to construct the line; line; and South Australia will naturally expect something like a cognition of our obligation under that agreement. However, we have not had a whisper from Ministers, and I think that honorable members from South Australia will be as surprised as I am that the matter has not been referred to by the Minister in charge of these Estimates. My own view is that we ought to make some arrangement with South Australia to enable us-honourably, of course-to break the understanding to a certain extent, so that the line may run west through Brunette Downs, and link up with the West Queensland lines. We should then be opening up some excellent country for settlement, and would eventually link up the West Queensland line with the New South Wales lines, and provide means of saving vast bodies of stock in drought periods. This would, of course, mean ultimately linking up the

lines with Melbourne, and the railway would prove a national asset, while giving the Northern Territory much quicker rail communication with the centres of Australian population than she would enjoy under a direct north and south route. I hope the Minister will deal with this question, and satisfy honorable members that his intentions, at any rate, are reasonably good, if his performances have been extraordinarily bad.

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Mr. GROOM (Darling Downs) [9.10]. It would be helpful to the Committee if the Minister of External Affairs could give some outline of the Government policy in regard to several of the leading branches which he is administering, so that we might be able to grapple properly with the problems we have to face. We look to the Government for a lead in these larger subjects, many of which are absolutely beyond the arena of party politics, and in which honorable members on both sides take great interest, having every desire. to arrive at a proper and just solution. First of all, there is the Northern Territory. When the Works Estimates were before us, we could not expect the Minister at that stage to give us a comprehensive view of what steps he was taking for the development of the Territory; but now, I think, we are entitled to a clear statement as to what the general policy of the Government is. We are placed at a further disadvantage, inasmuch as we have nc official report showing what has taken place in the Territory during the last twelve months. I notice from the evening newspaper that Mr. Atlee Hunt, the Secretary to the Department, is lecturing tonight before the Royal Geographical Society of Australasia on the development of that Possession; and I presume that the substance of his lecture is to a great extent official. It would be very interest ing if the Minister were to elaborate the information there given. For instance, we are told in the evening newspaper that Mr. Hunt will give a concise description of the physical features of the country, and a résumé of the steps taken in the direction of inducing settlement; and the Minister might be able to afford some idea of what those steps are.

Mr. TUDOR.—It would be a good idea for the honorable member to go and listen to Mr. Hunt.

Mr. GROOM.-A very good idea, seeing that we can get information in no other way. The frankness of the Minister

of Trade and Customs is to be commended; and, perhaps, we might go to the extent of allowing the permanent secretaries to give us here, the explanations which in the past have been afforded by Ministers, but which are now denied us. We are further told that Mr. Hunt will indicate the nature of the efforts that the Government are now putting forward to attract different classes of settlement. That is the kind of information which I am asking the Minister of External Affairs to give to us. He ought to have a full grip of the problem, having himself visited the Territory, and he ought to be able to enlighten us. We are also informed that Mr. Atlee Hunt was to state that— the principal type aimed at is that of the agriculturist, or the one that combines agriculture and grazing.

He was to point out that—

it will be necessary to await the results of the experiments now being carried out at the Government farms in the Territory before indicating to settlers which will be the more profitable crops, and the best methods of growing them. He was also to state that—

his personal view is that stock-fattening will for a time be the most profitable form of industry that the settler could engage in. Furthermore

It has already been decided that the Government will grant facilities to settlers in the way of frozen storage. The works will probably be ready by the end of next year, and the Government will then arrange for the shipping companies to call at the Territory for the frozen freight.

It is a good thing to see that the Secretary of the External Affairs Department is letting the public know what the Department is doing; but it would also be a good thing if the Minister, in his responsible position, would give us in this House a complete view of everything that is transpiring in connexion with the Northern Territory, both in regard to development and as to the steps which are being taken to attract settlers.

Mr. WEST. The Government have killed the monopoly in frozen meat up there.

Mr. GROOM.-I hope that the Minister will take what I am suggesting in all seriousness. I urge him to yield to the appeal we are making, and to furnish us with a statement of his policy. We have in the Northern Territory one of the biggest problems which we as a Parliament have to face. It has been pointed out to us in the excellent speech made by Admiral King Hall at the Lord Mayor's banquet on Saturday night what are the necessities of Australia.

Mr. THOMAS.-The honorable member has suddenly discovered that there is a big problem in the Northern Territory. His party were ten years in office, and did nothing.

Mr. GROOM.-That is not correct; but the situation is rather interesting. Here is a Minister who is carrying out an agreement which we made, and instead of answering an appeal which we are addressing to him now, he sits in his corner gibing. That is the Ministerial attitude when a statement of policy with respect to the Northern Territory is requested. Admiral King Hall, Admiral King Hall, speaking on Saturday night, said

The White Australia policy was a policy which must have more than bits of parchment behind it, if it was to be enforced in years to come. Although a very good start had been made in the Defence Forces, he candidly confessed to a feeling of uneasiness when he saw how slowly this great island continent was being peopled, for a large population was necessary in order to carry out the large naval policy required for this great country. It seemed unlikely that this magnificent country would not some day be coveted, if left so empty, by other nations whose peoples were overflowing the brim of their own countries. Therefore, Australia must be peopled as fast as possible. capable man was a national asset for the defence and prosperity of the country, and only ignorant people thought otherwise.

Every

Here is a gentleman occupying a high official position, and who spoke in a purely non-party sense. I do not wish to introduce his name into this debate with a view of exciting partisan controversy; but I think that he stated a proposition which every thoughtful Australian will recognise as absolutely true. We cannot deal with a great continent like Australia, and keep it as a white country, unless we are prepared to take steps to bring into the Commonwealth people who will become settlers and help us to defend it. That is the posi

tion which the Admiral makes so plain; and I trust that the Minister, when he makes a statement, will tell us that he indorses it to the full. I hope that he will not merely tell us that he is theoretically in favour of this policy, but that the Government of which he is a member intend to take all the practical steps they can to develop a proper immigration policy for Australia, so that we may secure a steady and continuous flow of desirable settlers. So far, immigration has been entirely promoted by the States. In 1906 the honorable member for Ballarat, who was then at the head of the Government of the Commonwealth, at a Premiers' Conference held in Sydney, made an offer to the State Pre

miers to co-operate with them in the matter of immigration. On behalf of the Commonwealth, he intimated his willingness to submit to Parliament a proposal by which his Government would combine in bringing to Australia a steady flow of immigrants. He further offered to negotiate for shipping in order that we might have a regular supply of vessels coming to Australia, not only bringing immigrants, but, by going right round the continent, securing regular transport for the north as well as for the south. Unfortunately, the State Premiers at that time turned the proposal down. I am glad to see that at present a different view is prevailing, and that the State Premiers now recognise that if an immigration policy is to be a continued success, there must be co-operation between the States and the Commonwealth. Accordingly, we find that at the last Premiers' Conference they passed the following resolution—

That the Commonwealth be asked to provide 25,000 assisted passages per annum for immigrants, arranging with the shipping companies and paying the cost of transportation on a uni form basic rate, the States to select the immigrants, and place them, as at present, any State being at liberty to supplement the number of assisted passages allotted to it at the same rate. That was an offer by the States to cooperate with the Commonwealth with a view of taking common action in the matter of immigration.

Mr. HowE.-The Commonwealth was to pay.

Mr. GROOM.-When a person comes to Australia does he not become a Commonwealth citizen? Does he not belong to us as much as to the States?

Mr. Howe. Perhaps.

Mr. GROOM.-Perhaps? The honorable member speaks of the States as if they were hostile alien agencies.

Mr. Howe. That is what they are.

Mr. GROOM.-Are we not members of

the States ourselves? What nonsense it is to try to create the idea in the public mind that there are two sets of people, instead of regarding every man brought to Australia as a citizen of the Commonwealth.

Mr. HowE. We all recognise that.

Mr. GROOM.-We ought to recognise it and act upon it. Unless we are to help the States to bring out these Australian citizens, we can never properly defend this continent of ours, and keep it as a white country.

Mr. HOWE.-We have no control over the land.