us. two wives and there fore was Paphnutius, a man that never proved marriage is. Paphnutipraised in the stories, for resisting such doctrine with God's word, in a general council before the pope was a God. And now M. More, a man that hath proved it twice, is magnified for defending it with sophistry. And again More had me seemeth that it is a great oversight of M. More to think that Christ, though he were never married, would not more accept the service of a married man that would more say truth for him than they that abhor wedlock : inasmuch as the spiritualty accept his humble service, and reward his merits with so high honour, because he can better feign for them, than any of their unchaste (I would say own chaste) people, though he be Bigamus, and past the grace of his neck verse. And finally, if M. More look so much on the pleasure that is in marriage, why setteth he not his eyes on the thanksgiving for that pleasure, and on the patience of other displeasures? THE FOURTEENTH CHAPTER. Bigamus. Christ's Tyndale. pro The pope And as for a cruel tyrant. MORE. Wicliffe was the occasion of the utter subver- More. sion of the realm of Bohemia, both in faith and good living, and of the loss of many a thousand lives. TYNDALE. The rule of their faith are mises, and rule of their living God's law. loss of lives, it is truth that the pope slew, I think, an hundred thousand of them, because of their faith, and that they would no longer serve him. As he slew in England many a thousand, and slew the true king and set up a false, unto the effusion of all the noble blood and murdering up of the commonalty, because he should be his defender. MORE. The constitution of the bishops is not that the More. Scripture shall not be in English, but that no man may translate it by his own authority or read it, until they had approved it. TYNDALE. If no translation shall be had until they Tyndale. The spiritualty would not have the Scripture in English. Hun. More. If we be not guilty we need no pardon. More would excuse the murder of Hun. give licence or till they approve it, it shall never be had. And so it is all one in effect, to say there shall be none at all in English; and to say, till we admit it; seeing they be so malicious that they will none admit, but feign all the cavillations they can, to prove it were not expedient. So that if it be not had spite of their hearts it shall never be had. And thereto, they have done their best to have had it enacted by Parliament, that it should not be in English. THE FIFTEENTH CHAPTER. HE jested out Hun's death with his poetry wherewith he built Utopia. Many great lords came to Baynard's Castle, (but all nameless) to examine the cause (as the credible prelates so well learned, so holy and so indifferent, which examined Bilney and Arthur be also all nameless.) MORE. Horsey took his pardon, because it is not good to refuse God's pardon and the king's. TYNDALE. God's pardon can no man have except he knowledge himself a sinner. And even so he that receiveth the king's yieldeth himself guilty. And moreover it is not possible that he which putteth his trust in God, should for fear of the twelve men or of his judges, receive pardon for that he never was faulty, unto the dishonouring of our Saviour Jesus, but would have denied it rather unto the death. And thereto, if the matter were so clear as ye jest it out, then I am sure the king's grace's both courtesy and wisdom would have charged the judges to have examined the evidence laid against him diligently; and so to have quit him with more honesty than to give him pardon of that he never trespassed in, and to have rid the spiritualty out of hate and all suspicion. Then saith he, Hun was sore suspect of heresy, and convict. And after he saith, Hun was an heretic indeed, and in peril so to be proved. And then how was he con vict? I heard say, that he was first convict, when he was dead, and then they did wrong to burn him, till they had spoken with him, to wete whether he would abjure or no. MORE. The Bishop of London was wise, virtuous More. and cunning. TYNDALE. For all those three yet he would have Tyndale. made the old Dean Colet of Paul's an heretic, for trans- Doctor lating the Paternoster in English, had not the bishop of Colet. Canterbury holp the Dean. THE SIXTEETH CHAPTER. lation. THE messenger asked him, if there be an old lawful translation before Wicliffe's, how happeneth it that it is in Old transso few men's hands, seeing so many desire it? He answereth, the printer dare not print it, and then hang on a doubtful trial, whether it were translated since or before; for if it were translated since, it must be first approved. What may not M. More say by authority of his More was a poetry? there is a lawful translation that no man knoweth, subtle poet. which is as much as no lawful translation. Why might not the bishops shew which were that lawful translation, and let it be printed? Nay, if that might have been obtained of them with large money it had been printed, ye may be sure, long ere this. But Sir, answer me hereunto: how happeneth that ye defenders translate not one yourselves, to cease the murmur of the people, and put to your own glosses, to prevent heretics? ye would no doubt have done it long since, if ye could have made your glosses agree with the text in every place. And what can you say to this, how that besides they have done their best to disanul all translating by parliament, they have disputed before the king's grace, that is it perilous and not meet, and so concluded that it shall not be, under a pretence of defering it of certain years: where M. More was their special orator, to feign lies for their purpose. The having Scripture in English is utterly against the of the minds of the popish clergy. More. Tyndale. The Scrip ture was first deli vered to the people in their vulgar tongue. More. Tyndale. More. Tyndale. The ordinaries are MORE. Nothing discourageth the clergy so much as that they of the worst sort most calleth after it. TYNDALE. It might well be, pharisees full of holiliness long not after it, but publicans that hunger after mercy might sore desire it. Howbeit, it is in very deed a suspect thing, and a great sign of an heretic to require it. Then he juggleth with allegories. Sir, Moses delivered them all that he had received of God, and that in the mother tongue in which all that had the heart thereto studied, and not the priests only, as thou mayest see in the Scripture. And the apostles kept nothing behind, as Paul testified, (Acts xx.) how he had shewed them all the counsel of God, and had kept nought back. Should the lay people less hearken unto the expositions of the prelates in doubtful places, if the text were in their hands when they preached? MORE. The Jews gave great reverence unto the Bible, and we sit on it. TYNDALE. The pope putteth it under his feet and treadeth on it, in token that he is Lord over it, that it should serve him, and he not it. MORE. God hath ordained the ordinaries for chief physicians. TYNDALE. They be lawyers ordained of the pope, and can no more skill of the Scripture than they that never saw it: : yea, and have possessed a contrary docThey be right hangmen to murder whosoever knowledge desireth for that doctrine that God hath given to be the ordinary of our faith and living. hangmen to such as desire the of the Scripture. None can understand the Scrip. ture except he knew Christ to be his justification. trine. And when he maketh so great difficulty and hardness in Paul's epistles; I say, it is impossible to understand either Peter or Paul, or aught at all in the Scripture, for him that denieth the justifying of faith in Christ's blood. And again, it is impossible to understand in the Scripture more than a Turk, for whosoever hath not the law of God written in his heart to fulfil it. Of which point and of true faith too, I fear me that you are void and empty, with all your spiritualty, whose defender ye have taken upon you to be, for to mock out the truth for lucre and vantage. AN ANSWER TO M. MORE'S FOURTH BOOK. CHRIST'S church hath the true doctrine already, and More. the self same that St. Paul would not give an angel audience unto the contrary. TYNDALE. But the pope's church will not hear that Tyndale. doctrine. MORE. Confirmed with such a multitude of miracles, More. and so much blood of martyrs, and common consent of all Christendom. Tyndale. Ear conpardons fession and were never confirmed TYNDALE. Who shewed a miracle to confirm his preaching of ear confession and pardons with like pedlary? or who shed his blood for them? I can shew you many thousands that ye have slain for preaching the contrary. And again, Grecia, the one half of Christendom, by miracle. consenteth not unto them, which Greeks, if such things had come from the apostles, should have them had ere ye. MORE. The spiritualty be not so tender eared, but More. that they may hear their sins rebuked. TYNDALE. They consent not unto the way of truth, but sin of malice, and of profession. And therefore as they have no power to repent, even so can they not but persecute both him that rebuketh them and his doctrine too, after the ensamples of the pharisees and all tyrants that began before; namely, if the preacher touch any ground whereby they should be reformed, or by what means they maintain their mischief. Tyndale. The popish spiritualty are tyrants and perse cutors. |