of South Carolina, Upham, Whipple, White, Whitman, Williams of Virginia, Williamson, and Wright. The question then recurred and was taken on the motion of Mr. MALLARY to recommit the bill to a Committee of the whole House, and was also determined in the negative-yeas 63, nays 99, as follows: FEBRUARY, 1822. called for, the same was put on the first member thereof, to wit: that the said bill be committed to the Committee on the Judiciary; and was determined in the negative. The second member of said motion fell of course. And on the question, Shall the said rule be suspended as aforesaid? it was determined in the negative. Mr. SMYTH then moved that, so far as relates to the bill now under consideration, the operation YEAS-Messrs. Allen of Tennessee, Baldwin, Ball, of that rule of the House which provides that Barber of Connecticut, Bassett, Blair, Burrows, Can-any member may call for a division of a quesnon, Cassedy, Cocke, Condict, Conner, Crafts, Denison, Edwards of Connecticut, Edwards of North tion when the sense will admit of it," be susCarolina, Floyd, Garnett, Gist, Hardin, Herrick, pended. Hooks, F. Johnson, J. T. Johnson, Jones of Tennessee, Keyes, Long, Lowndes, McDuffie, McNeill, Mallary, Matlack, Mattocks, Mercer, Moore of Virginia, Moore of Alabama, Morgan, Nelson of Virginia, Overstreet, Poinsett, Randolph, Rhea, Rich, Russ, Scott, Sterling of Connecticut, Sterling of New York, Stevenson, Stoddard, Swan, Swearingen, Tod, Tucker of South Carolina, Tucker of Virginia, Van Wyck, Walker, Walworth, White, Williams of North Carolina, Williams of Virginia, Wilson, Woodcock and Woodson. NAYS-Messrs. Abbot, Alexander, Allen of Massachusetts, Archer, Barber of Ohio, Barstow, Baylies, Bayly, Bigelow, Blackledge, Borland, Breckenridge, Brown, Buchanan, Butler, Cambreleng, Campbell of New York, Campbell of Ohio, Causden, Chambers, Colden, Conkling, Cushman, Cuthbert, Dane, Darlington, Dickinson, Durfee, Dwight, Eddy, Farrelly, Findlay, Fuller, Gebhard, Gorham, Gross, Hall, Harvey, Hawks, Hemphill, Hendricks, Hill, Hobart, Hubbard, J. S. Johnston, Kent, Kirkland, Lathrop, Leftwich, Lincoln, Litchfield, Little, McCoy, McSherry, Matson, Metcalfe, Milnor, Mitchell of Pennsylvania, Moore of Pennsylvania, Murray, Neale, Nelson of Massachusetts, Nelson of Maryland, Patterson of New York, Patterson of Pennsylvania, Phillips, Pierson, Pitcher, Plumer of New Hampshire, Plumer of Pennsylvania, Rankin, Reed of Massachusetts, Reid of Georgia, Rogers, Ross, Ruggles, Russell, Sanders, Sawyer, Sergeant, Sloan, S. Smith, Arthur Smith, W. Smith, Alexander Smyth, J. S. Smith, Spencer, Stewart, Tatnall, Taylor, Thompson, Tracy, Upham, Vance, Whipple, Whitman, Williamson, Wood, and Wright. Mr. FLOYD then moved that the bill be committed to the Committee of Ways and Means, with instruction to amend the same by striking out "forty thousand" and inserting "thirty-eight thousand five hundred;" when Mr. CONDICT moved to amend that motion by substituting the Committee of Revisal and Unfinished Business for the Committee of Ways and Means. The question being stated on this amend ment Mr. RANDOLPH again rose to address the House. This bill went, as had been more than once said, and could not be too often said, to dismember the representation of none but the old States of this Confederacy. If ever there was a Government under the sun, where the greatest degree of liberality had been exercised by the Government towards he would not say its provinces-and yet, said Mr. R., we have acquired provinces, not that we might rule them with a rod of iron, but that they might govern us-if ever there was a Government that deserved, from the new accessions to the Confederacy, generosity, tenderness, liberality, gratitude, the Government of the old States is that Government. But, said Mr. R., we ask nothing of that sort; we ask nothing but justice. We say give us law, if you please sheer law, but give us law. And then, sir, we shall be Mr. WOODSON then moved that the said bill be met with a declamation-coming, I must be perrecommitted to a select committee, with instruc-mitted to say, from that quarter with not the best tions to strike out "forty thousand" and to insert "fifty thousand." A division of the question on this motion being called for, the same was put on the first member thereof, viz: that the said bill be recommitted to a select committee, and was determined in the negative. Mr. CAMBRELENG then moved the House do reconsider the vote taken on the motion of Mr. MALLARY, "that the said bill be recommitted to a Committee of the whole House." And on the question, Will the House reconsider the said vote? it was determined in the negative; when Mr. JONES, of Tennessee, moved that the said bill be committed to the Committee on the Judiciary, with instructions to amend the same by striking out "forty thousand" and inserting "thirtyeight thousand five hundred." A division of the question on this motion being of all possible graces-on the unrepresented population of the new and rising States-yes, the ri sing, contradistinguished from the sinking, States; once The Rising States was a toast in our sailors' mouths-a sign-board for our taverns; familiar in men's mouths as household words; but now a new distinction is taken between the rising and the sinking States. And from whom, said Mr. R., do we hear of this unrepresented population? From the States beyond the mountains-beyond the Mississippi-not, indeed, beyond Aurora and the Ganges, but where the setting sun allays his golden axle, not in the steep Atlantic stream, but in the Pacific; from States which, with a population of 60,000 souls, have for years been admitted in the Senate to a voice potential as the greatest. Mr. R. said he would again call the attention of the elder brethren of the Confederacy-the political Esaus of our tribe to the predicament in which they stand. We have heard, said he, a FEBRUARY, 1822. Apportionment Bill. H. OF R. great deal of the wisdom of the men who framed posed to be guarded against? By diminishing the Constitution under which we now sit. I have the electoral voice of the new States-of the new much faith in their wisdom, an unshaken and un-men-of the novi homines-electors or would-be changeable faith in their virtue; but I will believe elected? No, but by diminishing that of the oldest experience against the word of Solomon himself. States of the Union. I will not speak of my own I then say that, in my feeble apprehension, they State, said Mr. R., I turn to the case of Connecticommitted an error, fundamental and fatal, as cut, the birth-place of Roger Sherman, (and, if practised upon since by their successors. They she had contributed no more, she had, in his permade a provision for the admission of new States son, paid her full contingent to the wisdom and into the Union. And of what nature? They patriotism of the country;) to that of Vermont, went across the Ohio-they did not dream at that neither an old or a new State, but who, tried by time of going beyond the Mississippi and the Rocky the test of valorous resistance, in our Revolutionmountains-they marked out certain diagrams on ary_struggle held as proud a rank as any; to that the map, within the actual limits of which no of Delaware-he had not looked over the whole white man had dared to show his head; and they list, he could not look it over, like a crowned head said, in the simplicity of their hearts, that, when conning over the condemned list, and designating these ideal territories should possess each a popu- them that should be left for execution. He could lation of 60,000 souls, they should be States, and not say to each and all of the States, whose repshould have an equipollent weight in the other resentation is to be diminished on this floor, you branch of the Government, and a weight, in the are on the decline; you smack of antiquity; you election of President and Vice President of the must content yourself with a lower station than United States, compounded of their representation you have hitherto occupied; to say to Virginia, there and here. hereafter you must not think of-what? Of posThis, Mr. R. said, brought him to another point. sessing a comparative, relative influence? No; He never had voted but for one amendment to the not only that she shall lose that rank she has hereConstitution of the United States; and he had tofore held in the Union, but that she shall lose lived to see the time when he was by no means the little influence she heretofore possessed. This, sure that he gave a wise (though he was perfectly Mr. R. said, might be wisdom in the eyes of others, certain that he gave an honest) vote on that occa- but, in his opinion, it was a fundamental error in sion. Mr. R. said he was one of those so little the Government of this country, which this House, disposed to find fault with, and innovate upon, instead of taking means to palliate, was now taking established government, as to have rendered him- every step in its power to aggravate and enhance. self obnoxious to the opposite charge of upholding A vast augmentation of weight in this House, and old abuses. Yet he should not be sorry, he said, elsewhere, was now to be given to some of the to see this provision in the Constitution-that States, and, of all the States in the Union, to the whoever proposed an amendment to the Constitu- State of Ohio; which State-but not by his vote, tion should, as in some other States that we have he believed he stood alone on that occasion-hé read of, do it with a halter about his neck, and, if would not dress himself in borrowed plumes-he the proposition did not succeed-if it failed to be would not claim credit for others' liberality—the adopted that the mover should be instantly tucked subject had been referred to a committee of which up. Do you not see, said Mr. R., that that change he (Mr. R.) was chairman. For some cause, not in the Constitution respecting the manner of elect- necessary to state, it was put afterwards into other ing the President and Vice President of the Uni- hands; in fact to two individuals was intrusted ted States, established by these wise men, not of the marking out the boundaries of that State, out Greece, but of America-of whom he acknowl- of which arose the existing dispute between her edged himself to be one, and acting under a recent and Michigan. They had a carte blanche, and and flagrant attempt at abuse-has a tendency to they won the game accordingly. That great enhance the chances of its being to be decided by State, one of the greatest intriguers who ever our vote in this House, where we vote on that wormed himself into any department of this Govquestion, not according to representation, but ac-ernment, said he was laying off for the purpose of cording to States? And, as you diminish the number of Electors, (by limiting the number of representatives,) you not only increase directly the influence of the smaller and the new and unpeo-I foresaw it must come, and took my measures pled States, in the Presidential election, but also the probabilities of its being brought here for decision. And is it disrespectful-can it be out of order can it be thought harsh or indecorous, unbefitting the gravity and dignity of this assembly; if, when men start up like those from the dragon's teeth of Cadmus, obtruding or obtruded on the Presidential office is it not, indeed, proper that we the people, who stand in cliental relation to no man-who are no man's retainer-should take measures to guard against the election being brought here? And in what way is it now pro clipping the wings of Virginia. Little did I dream, accordingly; for our wise men, like poor old Lear of South Carolina, Upham, Whipple, White, Whitman, Williams of Virginia, Williamson, and Wright. The question then recurred and was taken on the motion of Mr. MALLARY to recommit the bill to a Committee of the whole House, and was also determined in the negative-yeas 63, nays 99, as follows: FEBRUARY, 1822. called for, the same was put on the first member thereof, to wit: that the said bill be committed to the Committee on the Judiciary; and was determined in the negative. The second member of said motion fell of course. Mr. SMYTH then moved that, so far as relates to the bill now under consideration, the operation of that rule of the House which provides that pended. And on the question, Shall the said rule be suspended as aforesaid? it was determined in the negative. Mr. CONDICT moved to amend that motion by substituting the Committee of Revisal and Unfinished Business for the Committee of Ways and Means. The question being stated on this amend ment YEAS-Messrs. Allen of Tennessee, Baldwin, Ball, Barber of Connecticut, Bassett, Blair, Burrows, Can-6. non, Cassedy, Cocke, Condict, Conner, Crafts, Den-any member may call for a division of a quesison, Edwards of Connecticut, Edwards of North tion when the sense will admit of it," be susCarolina, Floyd, Garnett, Gist, Hardin, Herrick, Hooks, F. Johnson, J. T. Johnson, Jones of Tennessee, Keyes, Long, Lowndes, McDuffie, McNeill, Mallary, Matlack, Mattocks, Mercer, Moore of Virginia, Moore Mr. FLOYD then moved that the bill be comof Alabama, Morgan, Nelson of Virginia, Overstreet, Poinsett, Randolph, Rhea, Rich, Russ, Scott, Ster-mitted to the Committee of Ways and Means, ling of Connecticut, Sterling of New York, Stevenson, with instruction to amend the same by striking Stoddard, Swan, Swearingen, Tod, Tucker of South out "forty thousand" and inserting "thirty-eight Carolina, Tucker of Virginia, Van Wyck, Walker, thousand five hundred;" when Walworth, White, Williams of North Carolina, Williams of Virginia, Wilson, Woodcock and Woodson. NAYS-Messrs. Abbot, Alexander, Allen of Massachusetts, Archer, Barber of Ohio, Barstow, Baylies, Bayly, Bigelow, Blackledge, Borland, Breckenridge, Brown, Buchanan, Butler, Cambreleng, Campbell of New York, Campbell of Ohio, Causden, Chambers, Colden, Conkling, Cushman, Cuthbert, Dane, Darlington, Dickinson, Durfee, Dwight, Eddy, Farrelly, Findlay, Fuller, Gebhard, Gorham, Gross, Hall, Harvey, Hawks, Hemphill, Hendricks, Hill, Hobart, Hubbard, J. S. Johnston, Kent, Kirkland, Lathrop, Leftwich, Lincoln, Litchfield, Little, McCoy, McSherry, Matson, Metcalfe, Milnor, Mitchell of Pennsylvania, Moore of Pennsylvania, Murray, Neale, Nelson of Massachusetts, Nelson of Maryland, Patterson of New York, Patterson of Pennsylvania, Phillips, Pierson, Pitcher, Plumer of New Hampshire, Plumer of Pennsylvania, Rankin, Reed of Massachusetts, Reid of Georgia, Rogers, Ross, Ruggles, Russell, Sanders, Sawyer, Sergeant, Sloan, S. Smith, Arthur Smith, W. Smith, Alexander Smyth, J. S. Smith, Spencer, Stewart, Tatnall, Taylor, Thompson, Tracy, Upham, Vance, Whipple, Whitman, Williamson, Wood, and Wright. Mr. RANDOLPH again rose to address the House. This bill went, as had been more than once said, and could not be too often said, to dismember the representation of none but the old States of this Confederacy. If ever there was a Government under the sun, where the greatest degree of liberality had been exercised by the Government towards he would not say its provinces-and yet, said Mr. R., we have acquired provinces, not that we might rule them with a rod of iron, but that they might govern us-if ever there was a Government that deserved, from the new accessions to the Confederacy, generosity, tenderness, liberality, gratitude, the Government of the old States is that Government. But, said Mr. R., we ask nothing of that sort; we ask nothing but justice. We say give us law, if you please sheer law, but give us law. And then, sir, we shall be Mr. WOODSON then moved that the said bill be met with a declamation-coming, I must be perrecommitted to a select committee, with instruc-mitted to say, from that quarter with not the best tions to strike out "forty thousand" and to insert "fifty thousand." A division of the question on this motion being called for, the same was put on the first member thereof, viz: that the said bill be recommitted to a select committee, and was determined in the negative. Mr. CAMBRELENG then moved the House do reconsider the vote taken on the motion of Mr. MALLARY, "that the said bill be recommitted to a Committee of the whole House." of all possible graces-on the unrepresented population of the new and rising States—yes, the rising, contradistinguished from the sinking, States; once The Rising States was a toast in our sailors' mouths-a sign-board for our taverns; familiar in men's mouths as household words; but now a new distinction is taken between the rising and the sinking States. And from whom, said Mr. R., do we hear of this unrepresented population? From the States beyond the mountains-beyond the Mississippi-not, indeed, beyond Aurora and the Ganges, but where the setting sun allays his golden axle, not in the steep Atlantic stream, but in the Pacific; from States which, with a populaMr. JONES, of Tennessee, moved that the said tion of 60,000 souls, have for years been admitted bill be committed to the Committee on the Judi- in the Senate to a voice potential as the greatest. ciary, with instructions to amend the same by Mr. R. said he would again call the attention striking out "forty thousand" and inserting "thirty-of the elder brethren of the Confederacy-the poeight thousand five hundred." litical Esaus of our tribe-to the predicament in And on the question, Will the House reconsider the said vote? it was determined in the negative; when A division of the question on this motion being which they stand. We have heard, said he, a great deal of the wisdom of the men who framed the Constitution under which we now sit. I have much faith in their wisdom, an unshaken and unchangeable faith in their virtue; but I will believe experience against the word of Solomon himself. I then say that, in my feeble apprehension, they committed an error, fundamental and fatal, as practised upon since by their successors. They made a provision for the admission of new States into the Union. And of what nature? They went across the Ohio-they did not dream at that time of going beyond the Mississippi and the Rocky mountains-they marked out certain diagrams on the map, within the actual limits of which no white man had dared to show his head; and they said, in the simplicity of their hearts, that, when these ideal territories should possess each a population of 60,000 souls, they should be States, and should have an equipollent weight in the other branch of the Government, and a weight, in the election of President and Vice President of the United States, compounded of their representation there and here. This, Mr. R. said, brought him to another point. He never had voted but for one amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and he had lived to see the time when he was by no means sure that he gave a wise (though he was perfectly certain that he gave an honest) vote on that occasion. Mr. R. said he was one of those so little disposed to find fault with, and innovate upon, established government, as to have rendered himself obnoxious to the opposite charge of upholding old abuses. Yet he should not be sorry, he said, to see this provision in the Constitution-that whoever proposed an amendment to the Constitution should, as in some other States that we have read of, do it with a halter about his neck, and, if the proposition did not succeed-if it failed to be adopted that the mover should be instantly tucked up. Do you not see, said Mr. R., that that change in the Constitution respecting the manner of electing the President and Vice President of the United States, established by these wise men, not of Greece, but of America-of whom he acknowledged himself to be one, and acting under a recent and flagrant attempt at abuse-has a tendency to enhance the chances of its being to be decided by our vote in this House, where we vote on that question, not according to representation, but according to States? And, as you diminish the number of Electors, (by limiting the number of representatives,) you not only increase directly the influence of the smaller and the new and unpeopled States, in the Presidential election, but also the probabilities of its being brought here for decision. And is it disrespectful-can it be out of order-can it be thought harsh or indecorous, unbefitting the gravity and dignity of this assembly; if, when men start up like those from the dragon's teeth of Cadmus, obtruding or obtruded on the Presidential office is it not, indeed, proper that we the people, who stand in cliental relation to no man-who are no man's retainer-should take measures to guard against the election being brought here? And in what way is it now pro H. OF R. posed to be guarded against? By diminishing Of re H. OF R. of South Carolina, Upham, Whipple. man, Williams of Virginia, William The question then recurred a the motion of Mr. MALLARY to 1 to a Committee of the whole II. determined in the negativefollows: Apportionment Bill. to the evenlook at his and he would he entreated patriotism, remembered ations, on the onably, in point siest acquisition Yes, he said, aceful conqueror. at acquisition, and what did you We did, sir-and w possidetis; for we 'S territory, while he That by way of pacalled on, Mr. R. conmen who had a hand on, and whose wisdom unjustly applauded, to at treaty, admitting vast the Confederation. We aot forearmed, said he, as experiencing-what YEAS-Messrs. Allen of Te Barber of Connecticut, Bass non, Cassedy, Cocke, Cond ison, Edwards of Conne Carolina, Floyd, Garnet Hooks, F. Johnson, J. T Keyes, Long, Lowndes, Matlack, Mattocks, M. of Alabama, Morgan. Poinsett, Randolph, ling of Connecticut, Stoddard, Swan, S Carolina, Tucker Walworth, White liams of Virginia NAYS-Messrs chusetts, Archer Bayly, Bigel Brown, Buck. New York, í Colden, Co lington, Dic Findlay, F vey, Hay Hubbard, Leftwich. Sherry, sylvar.. son of of N. Piers of P. are now FEBRUARY, 1822. atoma- most persuasive and powerful advocates, too, who aginary go to cut down the older members of the Confedak in the eracy that they may be exalted by their depression. unfading The honors and influence of the rising States canGernment, not be taken from them. Why, then, put this Mr. R., stigma upon us, the sinking States? Why brand know what us? Why draw the line of demarcation, and say to us, as to the goats, go ye to the left? Recollect that there were thirteen States when they began. Are there not now twenty-four of them—for it Lad become difficult to keep count of them? Are there not two and twenty votes given in the Senate by States which were not members of the Confederacy when the Constitution was adopted? There is, in fact, a majority; for there were two of the old States which, at that time, were out of the pale of the political church. Was this not worthy of consideration-not of the men who ap ply geometry and arithmetic to polities, with which they have no assignable relation-you may measure your land by geometry if you will, and get paid for it by arithmetic if you can-but, as to their application to politics, it never entered into the head of any but of a moon-struck madman, or of a good, easy, quiet sort of a gentleman, way, meaning no harm to others, always took his fuil share of whatever harm was going. It strikes me, said Mr. R., that we are pursuing theoretical principles, which ought never to have been permitted to find their way into this Government, to lengths from which eventually the most abstract and metaphysical must recoil; for, if they do not, in the madness of their projects and of their strength, they will pull the House over their heads. We are pursuing them to a length subversive even of the principles of our Government, and of every principle of union. If any man raises against me the hue and cry of being an enemy to republicanism, I cannot help that; for, if my life will not speak for me, my tongue cannot. The principles to which I allude are at once the principles, and not the principles of our Government. How comes it that the State of Delaware has two members in the other House? That she has had, ought to have, and I trust will continue to have, four Electors for President and Vice President? What does that right depend upon? Abstract theories? No, sir. Upon what, then, does it depend? Upon common sense-although no science, fairly worth the seven, and worth all the politics of any men who study polities in the closet instead of the busy haunts of men of professors of an university turned statesmen. How comes Virginia to have so many representatives whom we have heard representatives; of whom, said Mr. R., I am one to experience, I repeat-for on tree; and, when the time whole country is filled up, if w done in the green tree, what the dry? I, for one, although Aot forearmed. If I had been, I ca in declaring, that I would have ial Dejanira of modern times atal present! I would have staked tion of the Mississippi on the sword, bave gained it. d, he knew that the words of one who oice in his expressions than he was ole of misconception: accustomed to uch on his opinions, and not at all on, age that conveyed them-relying upon might offer itself at the moment, and e had always found the best that he could *...--it ought not, perhaps, to be matter of surhat he should fall into occasional inadverthat might give rise to unintentional misap recusion, or unintended offence. But, although called, with as much propriety as decorum, black M.. ae habitual use of many, perhaps too many Ceds, (for a wise man is frugal of his money and would we had more! How is that? Either she the words, while the fool is prodigal of both,) Mr. said, he never uttered one to the best of his has a right abstractedly and metaphysically to a representation of her numbers of that description, Follection in his life, without having some pre- or she has not. If they ought to be represented as and definite signification attached to its very de of meaning. But he should not be surprised bi being misrepresented, (not here; he expected Such foul play in these walls,) and honestly represented, as being the advocate of disunion. was no such thing; but they are so, and the ci people, we had a right to claim a greater representation than we have; which right I think we ought to have insisted upon as a sine quo non, and which is as clear as noon day; for, from the very circumstance of this population, the States where it prevails must necessarily be weaker in actual |
