SPEECH OF MR. ROBERTSON, OF KENTUCKY,

On the Change of the System of Land Sales.

[Congressional Debate, 1820.]

Mr. Robertson said, that it was with reluctance and unfeigned diffidence he had taken the floor, to offer to the committee anything which he would be able to say on the interesting subject under consideration. He was not friendly to apologetical speeches, nor in the habit of making them, but he owed to the committee an apology for his inability to make them any adequate return for their kind indulgence in rising, on his motion, to give him a full opportunity to deliver his sentiments.

Uninteresting as the desultory observations he should make must necessarily be, he hoped the committee would hear him patiently. No one could be insensible to the importance of the subject, or to the necessity of serious and sober consideration in deciding on it. It is a question in which not only the government, but the people-not only the East, but the West-not only the present generation, but posterity must, in some degree, be interested. He feared that its importance is not sufficiently felt, nor its character and its tendencies fully understood

ent session. Whether regarded in its effects on the fiscal concerns of the government, or the strength, prosperity, and independence of the West, or its inevitable moral and political tendencies, it had strong claims to the most dispassionate consideration.

Laboring under severe indisposition, he was totally incapacitated to do justice to the committee, or to the subject which he was about He would not attempt to give to it any factito discuss. Under this embarrassment, well tious importance. It is intrinsically as interaware of the magnitude of the subject, and of esting to the people as any subject that can enthe delicate and interesting considerations in-gage the attention of Congress during the presvolved in its discussion, and the great interests to be affected by its decision, he would not, if permitted to consult his feelings, obtrude himself on the committee, but would surrender the floor most cheerfully to some other member who could entertain them more profitably and more acceptably than he could hope to do, under the most favorable circumstances. But the peculiar situation in which he happened to stand left him no such discretion. He felt himself constrained, by a sense of duty to his state and himself, to give some of the reasons which would influence his vote.

Having bestowed on the subject, said Mr. Robertson, all the reflection that its importance and a due respect for the opinions of others required and his limited means permitted, and having come to the conclusion that the passage of the bill is demanded by considerations of policy which he thought a statesHaving introduced, early in the session, a man could not safely resist, he could not hesiresolution, instructing the committie on pub-tate to give it his vote, disregarding the conselic lands to inquire into the expediency of the qunnces that had been threatened. He felt measure now under consideration, it was ne-bound to discharge his duty impartially, and cessary, lest he might be suspected of a dere- he should do it fearlessly. liction of duty, to defend the policy of the system he had recommended.

He said he regretted that he could not co-operate with his colleague, (the Speaker, Mr. And having the misfortune not to be sup- Clay,) whose feelings on this subject he adported by the co-operation of some of his col-mired, but with whose opinions he could not leagues, who opposed the bill from the avowed concur. apprehension that it would injure the Western But he must be permitted on this, as well as country, and aimed a blow at its prosperity on all other occasions of public duty, to purand influence, he felt imperiously called upon, sue the dictates of his own conscience and by considerations which he could not resist, and judgment. Acting on his own responsibility, obligations from which he should not shrink, to if he was wrong, it was sufficient for him that vindicate the policy of his course, and endeav- he believed he was right. And on this subor to maintain the rectitude of his opinions and ject, others might think as they pleased, but the integrity of his motives. he felt a strong conviction that the adoption of the cash system would promote, not only the interest of the general government and of the people of the United States, but the substantial and permanent interests of the Western country.

He said that he was not so vain as to suppose that he would be able to offer to the committee any considerations in favor of the bill that had not occurred to them, but he did hope and believe that he should be able successful-, ly to defend his opinions with the nation, and even the Western country.

Mr. Robertson said, that the question is not whether the plan for selling the public

lands now proposed as a substitute for the one the remainder in four years, with interest, if in operation is unexceptionable or would ef- not punctually paid, and the land forfeited, if fectually prevent the recurrence of all the the whole consideration be not paid in five abuses and difficulties which it was acknowl-years. The bill before the committee proedged had resulted from defects in the latter, but only whether it be more perfect, and better suited to the purposes for which the old system was established.

He said that the Senate's bill, like all other human productions, however perfect in theory, would, no doubt, in its execution, be found liable to some objections. But these, he felt sure, would be comparatively insignificant; and he thought that the proposed law is not only better than the existing one, but as perfect as the experience of twenty years, and the circumstances of the times and the country would enable Congress to make one.

poses to sell the public lands for cash, at a price not less than one dollar and twenty-five cents per acre, and in tracts containing not less than eighty acres.

The first system, he said, having been tried twenty years, is ascertained to be defective. The last is intended to remedy the defects of the first, which, it is believed, might be effectually and safely done. The first, it is true, had been prepared with great care, and was considered, when adopted, better adapted than any other that could then be devised, to the ends for which it was instituted. These ends were, 1st. Revenue, and 2nd. The promotion He said, that in opposition to the bill, it had of the general and substantial interests of sobeen urged that the present system is a vener-ciety, by extending population and encouragable one, and not to be changed unless practi-ing industry, and the domestic, social, and cal men should pronounce the change neces-civic virtues. But, said he, consistently with sary. He did not profess to be a very "practi- these purposes, it is ascertained that it cannot cal man," or to know more on this subject than be fully executed. The experience of 20 years others; but he thought that no one should be had demonstrated its inefficiency and its tendenounced as a rash or an unskillful innovator, dency, from abuse and accident, to consewho should, after an experiment of twenty quences unforseen and mischievous. Instead years, endeavor to correct abuses and prevent of proving a sure resource of revenue, he bedifficulties which it had disclosed, and which lieved that, 'ere long, the treasury could not might produce consequences, which, if not rely no it. Instead of meliorating the condiaverted by timely interposition, might embar- tion of the poor, it had often been an instrurass the government and disturb society. He ment in the hands of the rich, by which they thought that if the system which had been in were enabled to oppress that class and enrich operation for twenty years were known to be themselves. Instead of strengthening the defective, it should be amended, and that if the argument of innovation were applicable now, it never would be inapplicable. As to "practical men," he said he did not precisely comprehend its import. But he supposed that those who had observed and felt the operation of the present system, from its adoption until now, might be considered sufficiently "practical" for all the purposes of the bill; and, although he was unwilling to adopt the opinions of others, merely because he might consider them "practical men," he would tell the gentleman from Tennessee, (Mr. Jones) that he believed the most practical men in the United States, on land subjects, are in favor of the change proposed in the bill under consideration. He would ask, who is more "practical" on all subjects that concerned the public lands than a late Senator from Ohio; (Mr. Morrow) and whose opinions have and deserve more universal influence? He had been called, by a Senator from Kentucky, (Mr. Crittenden) the Palinurus of the Senate. And is it so soon forgotten, that he wished to make the adoption of the system now proposed the| Mr. Robertson said that he should not venlast act of his long political life? That he felt ture to state that the revenue had been diminand avowed the necessity of reforming the ished by the sale of the public lands on credit. present system? And, said Mr. Robertson, It was impossible to ascertain, with certainty, the voice of the people will applaud him for whether there had been any diminution in its his patriotic purpose. amount, as the cash system had never been By the law now in operation, said Mr. Rob-tried. But he would venture to predict that crtson, the public lands are sold in quantities there would, in a few years, be a loss inevitanot less than one hundred and sixty acres, and bly, unless the bill before the committee should at a price not less than two dollars per acre, become a law. It was well known, he said, one-fourth to be paid at the time of sale, and 'that applicstion had been made, by the pur

Union and enriching the country, he feared that, if persisted in, it would tend to weaken the one and embarrass the other; instead of increasing the resources of the West, he believed that it tends to their subduction; in short, he believed that it could not be continued in operation, without creating the most unpleasant embarrassments in the government and among the people. That it was defective, he said, he believed all acknowledged. But, in regard to the nature and extent of its defects, their operation and ultimate tendency, and their remedies, there was a diversity of opinion. However, for all his purposes, it would only be necessary to show one radical defect, and that the proposed substitute would remedy it, without producing any bad effects that legislation could prevent.

This radical defect, he said, he found in the credit given to the purchaser, and he believed that the most serious difficulties that had occurred, or would occur, under the operation of the credit system, might be ascribed to the credit.

chasers of public lands, for many years succes- remaining three-fourths of the consideration. sively, for indulgence, and that laws had been Under the most auspicious circumstances, repeatedly passed, exempting from forfeiture some of the purchasers must unavoidably lands which had been purchased on credit, become delinquent. But if misfortune or caand for which the purchasers had failed punc- lamity should fall on the public debtor, or the tually to pay. This kind of indulgence had currency should become deranged, or the seaalmost become a matter of course. It had sons unpropitious, or the market for agricultubeen extended, with a few exceptions, annu- ral products dull or unprofitable, how would ally, for more than ten years. He believed it the debt be punctually discharged? But, said had never been refused, and he doubted wheth- he, add to these considerations the exorbitant er it ever would be. A bill had been engrossed prices which the advantages of credit tempt this morning, extending the indulgence one the speculator to promise, (which is the most year longer, and it is obvious that a similar fruitful source of accumulation) and which it law must pass at the next session, and for is impossible that he can ever pay, and how inmany consecutive years, or the debtors for the evitable is the growth of the land debt? It public lands must be subjected to great dis-must continue to increase as long as credit shall tress, and many of them to ruin. Mr. Robert-be given.

son said that he did not wish to be under- Such a system, said he, liable to so many stood as intimating that the indulgencies here- contingencies, must be intrinsically defective. tofore given were unnecessary or improper; on It could not long be continued in operation, the contrary, he was sure that they had been without defeating the ends of its institution. proper, and that it would be necessary to re- It could not be executed. He would not say, new them. But he thought that that policy if persisted in, it would eventually create a must be unwise which subjected the national debt so large that it never could be paid. But, legislature and the people to such vexatious he would say, and was bound to believe, that embarrassments, and that any system which the debt would become so much augmented, required such temporary and mitigating expe- that its entire collection would be difficult, redients in its operation, must be radically de-mote, doubtful and perilous. And he should fective. The necessity of continued indul- not attempt to disguise his apprehension that gence indicated very clearly the necessity of it never would be entirely collected; or, if colchanging the system which produced it. In- lected, that it would be under circumstances deed, said he, every argument that has been or could be urged in favor of indulgence, tends strongly to show the propriety of refusing, in future, that credit which has rendered such arguments proper and necessary.

which would prove that it would have been better that it had never been either contracted or coerced. He felt compelled to believe, that if the credit system be continued much longer, the government would necessarily lose a great part of the proceeds of sales, or would have to secure them at the expense of the best interests of the Union.

He said that he had frequently heard it stated, and his friend from Tennessee, (Mr. Jones) had reiterated, that the accumulation of the debt for the public lands, and the inability He was unable to perceive how such a diof the debtors to discharge it, resulted from lemma could be avoided. The people could temporary and accidental causes, and that it is not pay the debt now due; that debt must innot probable that the indulgence thereby ren-crease; the causes are permanent, and the effects dered necessary would long be required."

inevitable. When, and how, he asked, would He would not, he said, enter into an exami- it be collected? If it will be difficult or imposnation of those circumstances alluded to by the sible to collect twenty-two million, how much gentleman in support of that opinion, because more difficult will it be to collect, with safety, their character rendered a minute investigation one hundred million? Will you refuse further of them unnecessary. He thought it easily indulgence, and thereby subject the land to fordemonstrable, that the causes of the accumu- feiture? Then, passing by other consequences, lation of the debt were neither accidental nor you distress and ruin many of the purchasers; temporary; they existed in the nature of the and, in that event, it will have been unfortu system, and would continue to produce their nate for them that you gave them credit. If results, as long as it should be kept in opera-you refuse indulgence, confusion, disaffection, tion. The circumstances mentioned by the and oppression will follow; if you grant it, the gentlemen may have had some influence on the government loses revenue. Gentlemen might extent of the increase, but, if they had never choose their alternative. But it is certainly the occurred, the debt would have grown, and in- province of an enlighted policy to prevent this dulgence have been necessary. The debt had dilemma, when it might be possible, by opporbeen gradually accumulated for many years-tune interposition. This, he thought, is now in good times, and in bad times, and under all circumstances.

It could not reasonably be expected that a man, who should be able to pay only the first installment for a tract of land, could transplant himself and family in the Western wilds, open a farm, build his houses, support his family, and be able in four years, to save, by the culti vation of the soil, as much as would pay he

practicable; but no one could say how long it would be so. And if, by such interposition, the government should sell its lands for 34 cents per acre less, (the difference between cash payments under the two systems) it will be more than compensated, by certainly in getting the whole amount of sales

Mr. Robertson said, that it was useless to talk to him of the security the government pos

sessed, by holding the title to the land. This speculations, in fraud of the government, and security is only nominal; for while, by holding to the injury of the poor. Look, said he, to it, with a heavy and ruinous debt impending Alabama. What, but credit, was the cause of over your land debtors, you keep them com- the exorbitant prices bid there for land, or of paratively in a state of dependence and tenan- the great speculations that had been made cy, you will, at the same time, be unable or there or attempted? Would not many, who unwilling to evict them, and sell their houses purchased there, be unable to pay? Was not to hungry speculators and strangers. But, if the magnitude of that debt alarming? He you should so sell, it would be an event that did not, he said, wish to pursue this part of the might be deeply felt, and long deplored. subject; he had no doubt he was sufficiently understood.

The home of a freeman, said he, is dear to his heart. It is sacred; it is the centre of his Mr. Robertson here observed, that the ob affections and of his happiness; it is the sanc-jections to the credit system, which had most tuary of his wife and children. It is conse- influence with him, were of a character differcrated by being his home, and often endeared ent from those which were merely financial or to him by being the birth-place of his little personal, and of infinitely more consequence ones. Will you venture, for a paltry consider- in view of wise policy and enlightened patriation, to tear this from him, and thereby strike otism. They grew out of the moral and polit into wild and discordant commotion, all those ical tendencies of credit between the people tender strings? He felt, he said, that he was and their government. This was, he said, an touching a delicate subject, on which it would embarrassing topic; but his duty would not be painful to dilate. He would, therefore, not excuse its pretermission. He could not avoid pursue it, but content himself by having hint- it. It lay across his way. He should, thereed at it, with barely opening the door to the fore, give his opinion in regard to it without view of some of the consequences that would disguise. attend the credit system.

History, and a knowledge of the nature of Mr. Robertson said, that all his observation republican government, proved, that the rela and experience taught him to believe that any tion of creditor and debtor, ought not to exist permanent system of credit, national or indi- between the government and the people. It vidual, is pernicious. It is unnatural and se- begets obligations, and interests, and feelings, ductive, and had generally brought on those incompatible with the genius of free instituconcerned in its operations, distress, and not tions. If the citizen must stand in that relaunfrequently ruin. It is nationally a Pandora's tion to his government, it is best that he should box. What else, he asked, was more fruitful of be the creditor. If he stand in the attitude of the distress with which the people of the debtor, his interest may not be the interest of United States are now so much afflicted? the government, and his feelings may not alAnd what else is the cause of the magnitude of ways be in accordance with his duty. But, the land debt, and its concomitant embarrass- the objections to such a relation are multiplied ments? Would not the people now be in a bet- and strengthened when it is permitted to exist ter condition, if it had never been incurred? between the government and an entire commuAnd would not the Western country, particu- nity, or a large portion of the whole popula larly, be more prosperous and independent, if tion. It is then that the government may be credit had never been given on the public compelled to feel its own impotency, and the lands? Would it not be, in relation to the gen-supremacy of those passions which it was ineral government, out of debt?

stituted to control; and it is then that it may be in danger of degenerating into a government of men, and not of laws; of passions, and not of principles; of arbitrary force, and not of enlightened public opinion.

But, in addition to the objections he had mentioned, he said there were many others to the land credit. It deceived and embarrassed the purchaser. It compelled him frequently to promise too high a price for his land; it He said, that it had been very seldom the tempted him to go beyond his means; it policy of governments to encourage or permit placed the occupant in the power of the non- this odious and dangerous relation permanentresident speculator, and subjected the pur-ly; and most of those that ever did, had left chasers, of every descripiton, to the control of striking memorials of its impolicy. In Great circumstances which they could not foresee or Britain it exists to a great extent; and there, it avert, to the caprice of fortune, and to the is true, it is not deprecated by those who admercy of government. minister the government, but is considered by The purchaser, said he, if there were no them the bulwark of the constitution. It for credit, would not have to complain of the vi-tifies that government, by making it the intertiated paper currency, nor to reproach the gov-est of the opulent and influential to maintain ernment with refusing to receive of him such it. In this mercenary way, public sentiment depreciated paper as he had been compelled, is stifled, and instead of being endangered, in his transactions, to receive; nor would the the government is almost impregnably encapitalist be able to unhouse the poor man, trenched behind wealth and aristocracy. with family, who had enhanced the value of Therefore, in England, the public debt is conthe soil by improvements, and who, without sidered by many a public blessing. his fault, had become unable to pay the whole But, for the same reasons, he believed that, price for it punctually; nor would the ears of in free governments, it would be considered the Congress be assailed with reports of nefarious 'greatest curse. What would be the condition

But he was an unsafe guardian of the constitution, who would do or permit to be done, while he could prevent it, anything that might provoke any attempt, or even inclination, towards its destruction. Mr. Robertson said he felt devoted to Western interests, and had great confidence in Western virtues, moral and political; but, on a national question, which should be decided on national principles, he would be guilty of incivism if he were to act under the influence of local or sectional feel

of England, if, instead of being the debtor, she was the creditor of her snbjects? Who would then be the ministerial champion? Who would then preserve the government from revolution? Mr. Robertson said, that he did not mean to argue that the creation of a large land debt would eventuate in the disruption of our happy confederacy; but its tendencies would be towards disunion. If, said he, in England, it is necessary to the existence of the government, that it should be deeply indebted to its subjects, he would submit it to serious consid-ings. He was not so Godwinian in his opinion eration, whether, in the United States, the Union would be strengthened or cemented by permitting the citizens to be largely indebted to the government?

If, in England, the indebtedness of the people to the government would endanger its stability, would it be wise or safe to maintain the converse of the proposition here?

of human nature, nor so Utopian in his political principles, as to legislate on the supposed perfectability of the one, or practical infallibility of the others. Legislation should be adapted to men and things as they are, and every legislator should regard the passions, as well as the virtue of human nature. Why is it, said he, that manners govern laws? Why was it that Solon, when asked whether his laws were as perfect as he could make them, replied, that they were as good as the people would bear?

He thought no argument could be derived from the peculiar character of the Ameriean institutions or people, sufficiently strong to render it prudent policy here, to encourage or permit a large body of the community to be- Mr. Robertson said, that the people of the come largely indebted to the government. On West are attached to the general government; the contrary, he believed that a practical or he did not wish to see that attachment alienphilosophical view of the peculiar contexture ated. They are patriotic, and he did not wish of the American institutions, would show that to have that patriotism chilled by any system such an experiment would be as dangerous of public policy, which, he feared, if persisted here as elsewhere. In this free country, said in, might have that effect. Their feelings, Mr. R., public opinion is the substratum of the said he, are with the Union. Do not provoke political fabric, and the attachment and confi- indifference; do not excite their jealousies or dence of the people constitute the cement their fears, but encourage their confidence by which increases its strength and preserves its deserving it. Then, indeed, they would alsymmetry. ways be found among the first in your councils and in your fields. Then do not weaken, but strengthen the ligaments that bind the body politic, and you will diffuse health and vigor through the system.

Without the support of the first, the whole superstructure is prostrate; forfeit the last, and the fairest and most sacred temple of liberty on earth is in dilapidation. It is not indestructable, and depends more on moral than political principles.

But, said he, how different may be its condition, if, by continuing the credit system, The peculiar conformation of the federal Congress should compel the West, in self-degovernment-being "imperium in imperio”- fence, to oppose in a body the passage, or reenhances the value of public sentiment, and sist the execution of laws which it may be the renders it more necessary to the stability of interest and wish of the East to enact and to constitutional authority that popular confi- enforce, or should give the East an engine with dence should be preserved, and the whole mor- which it might annoy and oppress the West, al strength of the body politic kept undivided or should distract and pervert the public counon the side of the Union. The union of the cils, and array the East and the West against states, he said, was the first object of the con- each other. Should this state of things ever stitution. Nothing should be encouraged that occur, (and that it must sooner or later, under could weaken its ties. They are few and weak the present system, if continued, seemed to enough. Local feelings and sectional jeal- him as inevitable as the decrees of fate) no ousies are already sufficiently strong and nu-man should shut his eyes to the consequences merous. He feared it might be unsafe to in- that must follow. He would not portray them, crease them; it might do mischief; it could not but the effect that would be produced on the possibly do good. He repeated, that he did feelings and policy of the West, and on the not mean to insinuate that the Western debt, if legislation of Congress, not to look at ulterior augmented to even one hundred million, would results, must be seen by all who are acdestroy the Union. He could not utter such a quainted with human nature, or the history of sentiment. But he did mean to say that such the world. Would not the West be interested a debt would inevitably tend to inspire feel- deeply in indulgence, while the other members ings and generate interests, at war with the of the Union might be inclined, or even nefundamental principles of the Union. He cessitated, to coerce payment? Might not a hoped that there would always be too much American virtue and good sense to permit any circumstances to produce such an awful catastophe as dissolution.

Western party be created, (and would it not be formidable?) with anti-national interests and feelings? Would not the people of the West expect and require indulgence! Might they