H. of R.]

Buffalo and New Orleans Road.

[MARCH 24, 1830. might be convenient to sally forth, upon the position he In that clause of the constitution which gives to Conhad long occupied in these controversies. Some defence gress the power "to establish post offices and post roads," of that position--some vindication of his own course, in as I understand it, the right to make a post road is exfavor of the construction of this road, on constitutional pressly given in terms, and there is no need to resort to ground, would therefore be attempted. any incidental matter "to carry into execution" this power.

The federal constitution was, [said Mr. I.] in the lan- The very act forms the substance of the thing granted or guage of the convention, "ordained and established for authorized to be done. To establish means to found, to the United States of America." It was made with a per-erect, to build, to render permanent; and this action of fect knowledge of the wants and resources, the condition the power, according to the principles of common sense, and extent of country over which it was to operate. Its and the fair construction of language, may be applied energies and benefits were intended to be felt alike, and brought to bear as well upon the road over which the through all the members of the Union, and the geographi- mail is carried, as the office or officer created for its safety cal features which mark the territory of its domain. The and distribution. But it is said that the right to designate craggy summit, the sloping sides, the long, winding val- a pre-existing road is all that is conferred. There is, I leys of the Alleghany-its rivers descending to the ocean, think, too much refinement, not to say absurdity, in this as well as the coasts and plains of the Atlantic, were pre- argument. Suppose a mail route to be indispensable for sent to the minds of those who set in motion the principles the communication of intelligence between two points of this Government; and those principies, to be equal and where there is no road, and where none would ever be useful in their effects, must have been adapted to the situ- made by the local authorities, must Congress wait till the ation of all. And however we may differ about the mean-road is made? The establishment of the office is not, or ing of terms, in one thing we must all agree, that this con- cannot, be a mere designation of it. It had no previous stitution, as it is, was made for the whole United States, as existence. It is and must be made, out and out, by the they are. This general view of the subject may not be power of establishment. And why shall the road not be wholly unprofitable to those who have not "ordained and subject to the same power? established" their opinions upon the controverted points which I will now proceed to examine.

To carry into execution the powers "to declare war and support armies," it is "necessary and proper" that ConAmong the enumerated powers of Congress is the pow-gress should possess and exercise jurisdiction competent er "to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among to the construction of roads and canals. These, if properly the several States, and with the Indian tribes." It cannot located, will be among the most efficient means of national be denied that this regulating power over commerce may defence. In marching armies, in transporting provisions, act as well upon that which relates to internal commerce munitions of war, and intelligence, these may be as neces among the States, as that which relates to foreign; and sary to the interests and safety of the country as the arwhatever may be done as to one may, in adapting the mies themselves, or any of the mighty agents of the warmeans to the nature of the thing and the end to be attained, making power. To be convinced on this point, is only to be done as to the other; for the power is applicable to look at the face of the country, and the great extent and both, and is precisely the same. It is admitted, that, what- exposure of its frontier. And if a doubt or scruple reever is incidental to the specific power, is comprehended mains, let experience point to the expense, the sufferings, in the grant, and may properly be done under it. The and disasters of the last war. Then let reason and patriconstitution has, however, removed all cavil on this point, otism take the place of polemic sophistry, and answer by expressly giving to Congress the right "to make all whether the right to construct these communications does laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into not belong to the war-making power of Congress. execution the powers by it vested in the Government of| These, together with the power to appropriate money, the United States, or any department or officer thereof." are the grounds on which I rest the constitutional power The constitution means, and it can mean nothing else, that of Congress over subjects of internal national improve Congress may take into its own hands the management of ments. Nor do I admit that the appropriating power i all these concerns. It is not to stop satisfied with attend-general or undefined. It is, and ought to be, limited and ing to the commerce, or exchange of commodities with applied only to the subjects of legislation confided to Conforeign nations; it must, when necessary, go further, and gress, and cannot be extended to any other without a vioregulate trade between different States, and even the traf-lation of the constitution, and the risk of producing the fic with the Indian tribes in furs and peltry; for that, too, utmost confusion. I yield the point that the assent of a is commerce, in the meaning of the constitution. And it State cannot extend or add to the power of Congress any is no matter whether this trade is carried on upon seas or thing which, in virtue of the constitution, it does not pos rivers, upon land or water, in East India merchantmen, in sess. The question, now and at all times, must be, is the river boats, Indian bark canoes, or road wagons; these are right to act contained in the constitution or not? If it is, all but the different mediums and vehicles of conveyance, the assent of a State is useless. If it is not, then a State and are alike subject to the action of Congress, in such cannot give it. I would go further, sir, and maintain that manner as may be necessary and proper. But it is said a State cannot withdraw any portion of the power, juristhat, to execute these regulations, nothing is necessary and diction, and sovereignty, which, by the federal compact, proper to be done, but to make rules--revenue laws, and has been conferred on the Government of the Union. As the like something, on paper. I will not go to a dictionary to the rights of the States and the rights of this Governfor the meaning of the word " "regulate." I will go to the ment respectively, neither should encroach on the other. history of legislation, commencing with the foundation of Neither can give, nor take away, unless by an amendment this Government, and continued without interruption or of the constitution, in the appointed mode. I am no adobjection, on constitutional principles, down to this day, vocate either for the American system or the nullifying to prove what the undoubted right of Congress, under the system; and, much as I respect the authority and opinions power in question, is. It has been the work of every year of others to the contrary, I must continue in the belief to make harbors, build custom-houses, warehouses, sca- that no State, as a member of the Union, in any attitude walls, light-houses, and do every thing which the conve- that it can assume, has the right to supersede nience of external trade requires. If, then, it is consti- law of this Government. That would be emphatically tutional to do all this for commerce with foreign nations, I making a State the judge in its own case. demand a reason why it is unconstitutional to make a road believe in the plan I have heard proposed, that the veto or canal, when that shall be necessary and proper for the of a State shall oblige this Government and its Executive, Commerce " among the several States." whose duty it is to execute the laws, to stand still till the

or annul a Neither do I

MARCH 24, 1830.]

Buffalo and New Orleans Road.

H. of R.

matter can be adjusted in some way unknown to the con- other portion than I am, the task of doing justice to its stitution, if I have read it right. I am not convinced that claims.

the discussion of these theories can be at all profitable; What, then, are some of the commercial advantages of and, following the example of the gentleman from Vir- the western part of this road? It has always been, now ginia, [Mr. BARBOUR] on another topic in this debate, I is, and, perhaps, will be to the end of time, the fact, that here enter my solemn protest against all these doctrines much the greater portion of all the merchandise for the and discoveries, at least in the sense in which I understand supply of Western Virginia and Eastern Tennessee is, them. and must be, carried from Baltimore and the more east

I will now return to the subject before us, and briefly re-ern cities, over the very ground that this road should oc mark, that, for my own part, I do not claim for Congress cupy. Nor do I mean, by Eastern Tennessee, that part the right of exclusive legislation over the territory within of our State only, which is technically called East 'T'enthe States on which a road or canal may be constructed. nessee. A great extent of most valuable country west of This right is specifically given in regard to what is now the Cumberland mountain, and embracing the broad, rich the District of Columbia, and all places purchased for the valley of Northern Alabama, in a high degree realizes the erection of forts, magazines, and so on. The express men- same condition. And when you add to this, the extraortion of it as to these, and the silence as to other places, dinary capacity of this whole region for the production if there were no other reasons, would seem to argue that of iron, salt, and flour, cotton, and other manufacturing jurisdiction was not intended to be given, except in those and agricultural produce, every statesman must be at once cases where it is so expressed. But the power of Con- struck with the immense importance of convenient comgress being competent, as I conceive, to the execution of munication, not only to that country,but to all others dependsuch works, I would extend it that far, leaving, in the hands ant on its supplies. And how would the advantages of a of the States, the care of their preservation, and the ad-road east of the Blue ridge, through the Southern States, vantage of their use; and this course has the additional in this respect compare with those I have hinted at rather recommendation of policy and convenience. than described? Nature, and the unalterable direction of

ence.

Let me also notice what I must, with great deference, trade, will answer this question. There the road would call an error into which some have fallen. They deny run nearly parallel with the sea-coast. The direction of that we have power to make internal improvements, but their trade is from the coast to the upper country, and vice admit that we can subscribe stock to incorporated compa- versa, not along the course of the road, but crossing it nies, and appropriate money or land to States for the same almost every where at right angles. Except for the mere purpose. This I consider a distinction without a differ- conveyance of commercial intelligence, the road could be Can we enable others to do that which we cannot of no advantage to trade, worth calculating, and so the do ourselves? The difference between doing and causing report of the engineers states. to be done, is too subtle for fundamental rules of action. To show that this improvement is necessary for a mail The argument amounts to this: that, as a partner with road, I need only remind the House that, from the centre others, Congress can do that which it could not do alone; or, to the extreme points, it traverses the very interior of the that it may employ an agent, and entrust him with the republic. Among the advantages to the speedy conveymeans of doing that which it could not do itself. I, too, ance of intelligence that it will afford, there is one that admit that Congress can, in proper cases, make these sub cannot escape observation, when it is remembered that scriptions and appropriations-not because it could not New Orleans is the mart of the whole country through otherwise accomplish the object; precisely the reverse: which this road passes, for the distance of eight hunbecause, as principal, it could do the act, and therefore dred miles. The gentleman from Virginia [Mr. BARmay avail itself of the co-operation and agency of others. BOUR] informed us that the average cost of carrying the I cannot see upon what principle this proposition can be mail, three times a week, from this place to Orleans, was based, unless it is supposed that Congress has the unlimited fifty-two dollars a mile; that the average cost generally in right to appropriate money without regard to the consti- the United States was fifteen dollars a mile.. The report tutional purposes of legislation. The answer to that would of the late Postmaster General, Mr. McLean, informs us, be: You say that internal improvements do not belong to that, if this bad road was made good, the mail, to Orleans, the jurisdiction of Congress; the States reserved to them- could be carried in about half the time it then required; selves the right of making them. And will it be pretended and I infer for, at least, the average price elsewhere. that money can be appropriated and applied to any other These facts, I think, are worth something for my purpose, purposes than those within the rightful legislation of Con- if doubling the speed of the mail the distance of a thousand gress? I know of no power that could be assumed on the miles, and saving to the department the sum of thirty-separt of Congress more uncertain and dangerous than the ven thousand dollars a year, are matters deserving our unrestrained appropriation of money to objects not within attention. On the western route, we present you a surthe scope of its authority. On the score of economy and face that invites by every argument the improving hand of accountability, I think it generally much better that the art. Though the country may vie with any other in good money for public works should be expended under our and substantial qualities, yet, like others, it has its inconveimmediate direction and control, than be placed in the niences. There we have hills, and mountains, and limehands of others, as to whom we could neither exercise coercion nor remedy.

stone rocks to contend with; to cvercome these, we need the helping hand of the Government. Not so on the eastI will now proceed to show that the construction of this ern route. There, on a continued plain, nature has given road would be a proper exercise of the constitutional you a road of sand; and I have yet to learn how it is to power on which I rely. The bill directs its location on bear much improvement, or where the materials to better the western route; and I will, by the way, advert to some it are to come from. The time that the mail to Orleans of the advantages of that route over those of the others. might be carried, on either of the routes, is about the same. I do not expect to say the half that is due to this part of The distance nearly so, except that of the eastern, which is the subject; and the very thorough examination already thirty or forty miles longest. As to the important requisites, given to it by the chairman of the Committee on Internal health, abundance, and cheapness of provisions, and the Improvements, [Mr. HEMPHILL] who opened this debate, number and price of horses, the advantages are univerand my colleague, [Mr. BLAIR] renders it unnecessary that sally known to be greatly in favor of the West. I should; and what I shall feel it my duty to say will be confined to that line of road between this place and New Orleans, leaving to those much better acquainted with the

If it is unwise in time of peace to neglect preparations for defence in war, the construction of this road ought to attract particular attention. The lower country on the

H. of R.]

Buffalo and New Orleans Road.

[MARCH 24, 1830.

Gulf of Mexico must always depend chiefly on the fight- has been the revenue of the Government during the last ing men and supplies from the upper country for its de- fourteen years? By whom has it been paid? And where fence. Kentucky and Tennessee is the natural strength has it been expended? The annual receipts into the of that vulnerable frontier, but their position is far distant. treasury in that time have averaged at least twenty-two Our rivers, more than half the year, are too low to afford millions, amounting to more than three hundred millions. water conveyance: hence the necessity of a convenient The gentleman has truly said, that population is the rule communication by land. Nothing but the sudden and ex- by which contributions should be levied; and as to imports, traordinary rise of the Cumberland, in November, 1814, the consumers, as a general rule, pay the duties. It is seconded by extraordinary efforts, enabled the Tennessee also true that this revenue has chiefly been raised by dutroops to reach the scene of action in the very juncture ties. The Western country, comprising Western Pennof time. But for that, New Orleans must have fallen, sylvania, Western Virginia, and the nine Western States, without a miracle in aid of the unsurpassed skill and bra- contains about one-third of the population of the United very with which it was defended. States. Upon these conceded principles, then, the people As a military road, New Orleans must be deprived of all of this portion of the Union have contributed to the geneadvantage from it, should its location be through the ral fund, in the short period of which I am speaking, Southern States, each of which has cities and seaboard the enormous amount of one hundred millions of dollars. frontiers of its own to defend. The local forces and sup- Yes, sir, they have contributed much more: for, in addiplies of those States ought not, and will not, be drawn tion to their common share, they have, since the settlement elsewhere. In any war we are likely to have with a fo- of the new States, paid directly into the treasury more than reign enemy, the South will have enough to do to take forty millions of dollars in the purchase of public lands. care of itself; and it will give a good account of that, or And where have these contributions gone? It is, perhaps, any other trust, for its arms have always equalled the easier to tell where they have not gone. They have not highest expectations of valor and patriotism--nor would returned to the country from which they were drawn, exsuch a location be greatly serviceable, even for southern cept the miserable pittance dealt out to some old penwarfare. The march of troops, the transportation of sioners, a few salaries to federal officers, and a little aid provisions there, like the course of trade, must generally for particular public works, lately drawn through the fire be across, rather than along the road. by the efficacy of this same internal improvement opera

The reports of the engineers, already referred to, give tion. But the road on which the heavy wholesale appro the decided preference to the western route; and should priations have travelled to the seaboard is broad and beatthe commissioners to be appointed select for the location en. It needs little improvement. Its track can be seen of the road the most western branch of that route, as the far off. The by-ways on which the retail business is car bill authorizes them to do, and as they undoubtedly will ried on in the same direction are more difficult to trace. do, if my views are correct, there will then be some plain The actual expenditures in the same period, for the inand prominent advantages attained, peculiar to that loca- crease of the navy, for navy yards, dock yards, and tion, which must put to rest all further comparison. It wharves, for fortifications and light-houses, amount to will unite East and West Tennessee, separated by the twenty-four millions; and how many millions more have, Cumberland mountain. It will pass within forty miles of in the same quarter, been laid out upon sea-walls, harbors, the Cumberland river, crossing one of its navigable streams, and the like, I have not been at the pains to compute. To the Caney fork. It will cross the Tennessee river pro- the sea-coast and commercial cities are drawn almost the bably a little above the Muscle shoals, connecting with whole contents of the sinking fund chest, which is annually the canal about to be made there; and, above all, it will replenished with ten millions to defray the public debt, to intersect, a little south of Tennessee, the road branching say nothing of the officers and agents of the Government off from the Cumberland road at Zanesville, in Ohio, pass-in every description of service,, who spend their compen ing through Kentucky and West Tennessee to Florence, sation there, and the many inventions sought out to relieve in Alabama, and ultimately to New Orleans. the treasury of its surplus, with some of which I have no Here there is at once united the double advantage of acquaintance, except by the appropriation bills. In a bringing together these two great avenues of communi- word, the interior is tributary to the exterior. The trea cation, and the expense of making two roads, that point sury communicates vigor to the one, while the other lanto New Orleans, from a distance of four hundred miles, is guishes under its continual exactions. No wonder our saved by one-half. One road, instead of two, will be the condition is intolerable; the wonder is that we have enresult of such a location. For let the road now in ques- dured it so long. Nothing but the freshness and fertility tion be located on any other route, it will not meet the of our soil has upheld us till now; but the fatness of the road from Zanesville, till they both terminated at Orleans land must fail, without something to encourage and repay by different directions. These considerations, to whom- the toil of the dispirited farmer. I will give you, for exsoever they are known, must be conclusive on the subject ample, my own State. Its population is about one-twentyof preference. And I will only add that this branch of ty-second part of the national census; of course, accordthe Cumberland road has been surveyed in the direction I ing to general principles, it pays about one million annually have stated. A bill has been reported by the Committee in the shape of indirect tax. How many dollars of that of Internal Improvements for its establishment and con- million usually find their way back again? That which struction, and now awaits the action of the House. pays a district judge, two district attorneys, two marshals, The leading argument levelled by the gentleman from here and there a pensioner his ninety-six dollars, or less, Virginia [Mr. BARBOUR] at the whole system of internal with the little savings of the members of Congress; and improvement, appears to consist in the assumed inequality all told. We do not expect this whole million to be returnwhich the system will produce in the disbursement of the ed, nor half of it. It would be unreasonable and impracrevenue, and the remedy proposed for the correction of ticable if we did. We have no Government creditors that inequality. A successful reply to that must greatly there. Our people had no money to lend for the war. impair the force of his very able speech. This reply is They did their share in fighting. Neither have we any all that I shall, at present, undertake. And, for success use for fortifications, navy yards, breakwaters, nor any in this, I will depend on matter of fact and experience, the apparatus of foreign commerce; but we have some inrather than theories and speculations. It is the inequality of ternal commerce, and would with suitable internal im disbursement, without this system, of which I complain; provements have much more. And we humbly conceive and to effect something like equality in this respect, 1 that the Government has an equal interest with us in makhold the steady pursuit of it to be indispensable. What ing these to answer its purposes. In accomplishing these

of

INDEX TO THE DEBATES IN THE SENATE.

Adjournment, joint committee appointed to wait upon the
President, and notifiy him that Congress were
about to adjourn, 457. Committee reported, and
the Senate adjourned, 457.
Appropriation bill, taken up, 245.
Appropriations for light-houses, beacons, and buoys, bill
making, taken up, 432; amended, and ordered to
a third reading, 433.

bill detained by President United States for further
consideration, 457.

Georgia, motion to print the remonstrance of the State of,
against treaties formed by the United States with
the Indians in that State, and against the inter-
course law of 1796, 245; proposition to amend
so as to include the laws of Georgia extending
jurisdiction over the Cherokees, 245; further
amendment proposed, to include the laws of all
the States concerning Indian relations, 245;
amendments adopted, and resolution agreed to,
247.

Army of the United States, bill authorizing the President Hunt,
to mount and equip ten companies of the, taken
up, and ordered to a third reading, 272, 274.
Attorney General, bill to reorganize the establishment of
the, taken up, and postponed, 276, 277; again
taken up, debated, and laid on the table, 322,
323, 324; again taken up, amended, and laid on
the table, 404.

Baltimore and Ohio railroad, bill authorizing a subscription
of stock in, taken up, 453; proposition to amend,
and debates thereon, 453, 454, 455; bill laid on
the table, 455.

Canals. (See Louisville and Portland.)
Carson, James, register of the land office at Palmyra, in
Missouri, resolution calling for the reasons of his
removal, taken up, 384; laid on the table, 385.
Coins, resolution adopted to consider the state of the cur
rent, 1.

Congressional documents, resolution authorizing a sub-
scription to a compilation of, taken up, 84.
Controversies between States, bill to prescribe the mode
of commencing, prosecuting, and deciding, taken
up, 409; motion to postpone, 409.

Currency, resolution submitted to inquire into the expe-
diency of establishing a uniform national, 3;
adopted, and sundry papers on the subject refer-
red to the committee, 3.

Deaf and Dumb, bill making donation for the New York
institution for the education of the, taken up,
302; various amendments proposed to include
similar institutions in other States, 302; amend-
ments adopted, 304; further amendments pro-
posed, ordered to be printed, and the bill to lie
on the table, 305.
Duties, taxes, &c., bill for the abolition of, notice given of
its introduction, 172; leave given, and bill read
the first time, 179; further considered, and bill
withdrawn, 245.

Duties, bill to reduce the, on coffee, tea, and cocoa, from
the House of Representatives, with amendments
proposed by Committee on Finance, taken up,
428; amendments agreed to in part, and bill or-
dered to a third reading, 428, 432.

Duties on

imports, bill to exempt certain merchandise from
the operation of the act of 1828, imposing, taken
up, debated, and rejected, 452, 453.

Executive powers, notice given of a proposed motion to
transfer the discussion on the subject of, from the
executive to the legislative journal, 11; decided
to be out of order, 11.

Fulton, Robert, resolution submitted and adopted, to in-
quire into the expediency of granting a portion
of the public lands to the heirs of, 21.
bill to recompense the heirs of, rejected on the
third reading, 247.

Theodore, resolution calling for the reasons for the
removal of, from the office of recorder of land
titles in Missouri, taken up, 367; debate thereon;
367 to 374; laid upon the table, 374.
Impeachments. (See Peck, James H.)
Indian tribes, bill for the relief of persons who have lost
property by the depredations of, taken up, 11.
Indian agencies, bill authorizing the President to divide,
in certain cases, taken up, 128; ordered to a third
reading, 129.

Indiana, bill to enable the President to extinguish the In-
dian title within the State of, taken up, 16; de-
bate thereon, and amendments proposed and
adopted, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21; bill laid on the table,
21; again taken up, 284.

Indians,

Interest

Internal

Lands,

resolution calling for information respecting the
progress of civilization among the, taken up, 42;
amended and adopted, 43.

bill to provide for an exchange of lands with,
and for their removal west of the Mississippi,
taken up, and amendment proposed, 305; again
taken up, and amendment withdrawn, 307; bill
resumed, various amendments! proposed, and
debate thereon, 309 to 320, 324 to 339, 343 to
357, 359 to 367, 374 to 377, 380, 381, 382, 383;
bill ordered to a third reading, 383; returned
from the House of Representatives with amend-
ments, 456; further amendments proposed and
negatived, and the amendments of the House of
Representatives concurred in, 456.

to certain States, bill for allowing, for advances
during the war, taken up, amended, and post-
poned, 1, 2.

improvement, bill making appropriations for ex-
aminations and surveys, and for certain works of,
taken up, 340; amendments proposed and adopt-
ed, 340; further amendments proposed, and de-
bate thereon, 340 to 343; bill ordered to a third
reading, 343.

resolution proposing to limit the sales of the public,
and of abolishing the office of surveyor general,
taken up, 3; debate thereon, 4 to 7; postponed,
7; again taken up, 11; debate thereon, 11 to 16,
22 to 30; motion to amend, so as to hasten the
sales, and extend more rapidly the surveys, 30;
modifications of the amendment proposed, and
debate thereon, 31 to 41; motion to postpone in-
definitely, 41; debate thereon, 43 to 172; 179 to
220; 223 to 244; 247 to 272; 277 to 302; 435 to
452.

bill for the relief of the purchasers of the public,
from the House of Representatives, with amend-
ments, taken up, 274; further proposition to
amend negatived, and the amendments of House
of Representatives concurred in, 276.