20.0.4/12/20 WAR EXPENDITURES. SUBCOMMITTEE No. 5 (ORDNANCE) OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, The subcommittee met at 10 o'clock, on call of the chairman, Hon. William J. Graham (chairman) presiding. Present: Hon. William J. Graham (chairman), Hon. Albert W. Jefferis, and Hon. Finis J. Garrett. TESTIMONY OF LIEUT. COL. A. J. STUART. (The witness was duly sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. Colonel, I asked the Chief of Ordnance to send down some officers here who could give us an account of the amount of ordnance stores and supplies on hand at the time of the signing of the armistice, their disposition since that time, and present condition* of ordnance stores. Have you prepared that information so far as it is available? Col. STUART. We had prepared, in accordance with your previous instructions, a statement showing the status of the ordnance and ordnance stores on hand at the present time. We did not understand that you wanted the status at the time of the signing of the armistice,, and, while we have not been able to tabulate it in form so that we can give it to you in a convenient form, I think we have all the information which will enable us to answer any question. The CHAIRMAN. It can be tabulated, I suppose? The CHAIRMAN. We will get that in due time, then? We did not The CHAIRMAN. Now, can you also give us such information as is available as to how much has been disposed of or sold since the signing of the armistice? Col. STUART. I will have that; there is an officer on his way now! who will have full information as to that. ! The CHAIRMAN. Before we go into it; of course, we know the definition in a general way as given in the military code of ordnance supplies, but tell this committee in a brief way what you consider asł ordnance supplies; what they are. Col. STUART. Ordnance supplies consist of artillery, small arms, and ammunition for each; certain vehicles used in connection with artillery, such as tractors, caissons, and other accessories; tanks, armored cars, and other vehicles of an offensive nature; also trench-warfare armament with the ammunition therefor; and drop bombs, together with the release mechanism and accessories. Included in the accessories for the artillery are range finders, sights, and fire-control instruments. The CHAIRMAN. Have you named them now? Col. STUART. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Now, there are certain small articles having to do with certain departments, such as harness, holsters, leather goods, and such accouterments. Sometimes those are ordnance supplies and sometimes Quartermaster's stores, are they not? Col. STUART. Prior to the war the Ordnance furnished all ordnance and horse equipment, including harness for combatant vehicles, such as the artillery, caissons, batteries, and other ordnance vehicles. The Quartermaster Department furnished horses and harness for escort wagons and other horses for the supply of material used other than ordnance. During the war the personal and horse equipment was transferred to the Director of Purchase and Storage by order of the Secretary of War, and the Director of Purchase and Storage is now charged with the supply and distribution of that material. The CHAIRMAN. Well, are there any other articles that were properly denominated as both ordnance and quartermaster stores except those that you have mentioned? Col. STUART. No, sir; those-well, I perhaps could make it clearer by elucidating on that a little. During the war, in order to coordi nate and increase efficiency in buying, of course, the procurement of all the material of a commercial character was taken over by the Director of Purchase and Storage, leaving only the technical material with the Ordnance Department. The CHAIRMAN. Yes, I understand. Col. STUART. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. How much of the functions of the Ordnance Department have been taken away by the Purchase, Storage and Traffic? Col. STUART. Relatively, comparatively, a very small amount. The CHAIRMAN. Smaller than any other department, perhaps? Col. STUART. Yes, sir; I should say so, due to the fact that so much of the ordnance material is highly technical in character. The CHAIRMAN. All steel and metal products were handled by your department, were they not? The manufacture of shells and small arms and guns, and such material was retained by your department? Col. STUART. All highly technical material which could not be procured in the ordinary market. The CHAIRMAN. Does Purchase, Storage and Traffic buy any steel or goods of any kind? Col. STUART. They buy all steel, ferrous, and metal parts of the personal and horse equipment. The CHAIRMAN. Now, about such things as bolts and nuts, and ordnance parts of that kind, those are bought by the P. S. and T.? Col. STUART. Wherever the material is of a standard character the orders have been that the procurement will be consolidated under the Director of Purchase and Storage. The CHAIRMAN. How do you ascertain just what that means? Who passes on that? Col. STUART. We are governed by the supply circulars which are issued by the Director of Purchase, Storage and Traffic, and it may be there are items where the instructions can be construed either way. The CHAIRMAN. Has there ever been any conflict of authority between the Ordnance and the P. S. and T.? Col. STUART. I am not in a position to answer that. The CHAIRMAN. You do not know that? Col. STUART. No. The CHAIRMAN. But there are circulars issued from time to time specifying certain things which are to be handled by Ordnance and certain things by the P. S. and T.? Col. STUART. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have a sample of those circulars here with you? Col. STUART. No, sir; I do not. The CHAIRMAN. How often are they issued? Col. STUART. There were a number issued in the formative stage of this change. Recently the supply circulars have not been very numerous. I should say, roughly, between 100 and 150 have been issued altogether. But that is purely a guess on my part. The CHAIRMAN. Now, Colonel, how many ordnance supply storehouses do you have in the United States? Col. STUART. I have not the figures as to the number of buildings. The CHAIRMAN. Well, do you know where they are located? Col. STUART. Yes, sir. We have two general classes of storage depots, those for ammunition and hazardous material, and those for general material which is not of a hazardous nature which we commonly term as inert material. The CHAIRMAN. Where are they? Col. STUART. The principal ammunition depots at the present time are Raritan Arsenal, N. J.; Morgan general ordnance depot, near New York; Delaware general ordnance depot, near Philadelphia; Mays Landing general ordnance depot, near Átlantic City; Curtis Bay general ordnance depot, near Baltimore; Pig Point general ordnance depot, near Norfolk; Penniman general ordnance depot, near Richmond; Seven Pines general ordannce depot, near Richmond; Charleston general ordnance depot, near Charleston, S. C.; Nitro general ordnance depot, near Charleston, W. Va.; Sandy Hook general ordnance depot, near New York; Woodbury general ordnance depot, near Philadelphia; Tobyhanna general ordnance depot, in the eastern part of Pennsylvania; Sparta general ordnance depot, near La Crosse, Wis.; Wingate general ordnance depot, near Gallup, N. Mex.; Turner general ordnance depot, near Baltimore. The CHAIRMAN. Now, those are general ordnance depots? Col. STUART. Those are ammunition depots. And then, in addition to that, we have the following depots for inert material: Aberdeen Proving Grounds-that is separate from the Proving GroundsMaryland; Erie Proving Grounds, Erie, Pa.; Savanna Proving Grounds, near Rock Island, Ill.; Benicia Arsenal, near San Francisco; Rock Island Arsenal; Augusta Arsenal; San Antonio Arsenal. And then we have material in depots which have been turned over to the director of purchase, storage and traffic at the time the personal and horse equipment was turned over to him. |