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is aware that he has himself refused to ask the Lord Chancellor to place Mr. Jones, in the name of Herbert, on the Commission of the Peace because he so changed his name without Royal licence? And whether he is aware that such conduct on the part of the Lord Chamberlain, the Authorities at the Horse Guards, and himself, is contrary to law?

It

that they must. There is no doubt that a gentleman may change his name; and if the change is permanent, and is sanctioned by the usage of such a length of time as to give it a permanent character, may receive a commission in his new name. appears, however, from the correspondence in this case, which the hon. and learned Gentleman is welcome to see if he pleases, SIR GEORGE GREY: I have taken that in the first instance Mr. Jones asked no part whatever in reference to this mat- to be recommended for a commission in ter, except to acknowledge the receipt of the Militia. The Lord Lieutenant undera letter from Lord Llanover, the Lord took to make the recommendation; but Lieutenant of the county, transmitting me he afterwards received an intimation that his correspondence with Mr. Jones. The Mr. Jones wished the recommendation to hon. and learned Gentleman has first asked be suspended until he was of age. With me whether or not Mr. Jones, of Clytha, that request the Lord Lieutenant complied; has assumed the name of Herbert without and on the 22nd of last December Mr. Jones Royal licence. I do not know whether he wrote to say that his father had expressed has or not; all I know is that he has not a wish to change his name to Herbert, applied for a Royal licence to change his and he therefore requested that the Lord name. I am not aware that the Lord Lieutenant would obtain his commission in Chamberlain has refused to permit him to the name of Herbert, instead of in that of be presented at Court in consequence of Jones. Although the law is as stated by such change of name, nor do I think that the hon. and learned Gentleman, and a such can be the case, because the change bond fide change of name, intended to be of name took place in March, and there permanent, and sanctioned by public nohas been no opportunity for his presenta- tice and usage is valid, it is not competent tion at Court since that time. I believe I to any one to write to the Horse Guards may answer the next Question also in the on Monday, and say, his name being Jones, negative, because I do not know that the that he wishes that in the next Army List case has been before the Horse Guards. it should appear as Herbert, and on TuesThe names of officers of the Militia are day say that he desires to be called Roesubmitted to the Queen upon the recom- buck, or anything else. If this gentlemendation of the Lord Lieutenant, who, man's father has taken the name of Herin this instance, I believe, refused to give bert, and if he is generally recognized as that recommendation. I have not refused Herbert, there may at some future period to ask the Lord Chancellor to place Mr. be no objection to place him in the comJones on the commission of the peace, and mission under that name. Step-children never had any application from Mr. Jones are often brought up under the name of that I would do so. The practice is for their step-parents, as was the case with the Lord Lieutenant to recommend county those of the late Admiral Sir Charles magistrates; such recommendations never Napier; but that is a very different thing go through the office of the Secretary of from a gentleman saying, "I will take a State. I was wholly unaware of the cir- new name, and I require that my new cumstances of this case except from a name shall be used in all public doculetter which I received from Lord Llan- ments." I believe the law to have been over, dated the 11th of March, in which correctly stated; but I do not think that he forwarded to me a copy of the corre- there is sufficient certainty about this spondence between himself and Mr. Jones; matter to permit an application for a combut I am requested by Lord Llanover mission in the name of Jones to be made to state that he did apply at the office out in the name of Herbert. of the Secretary of State to know whether Mr. Jones had made an application for a Royal licence to change his name, when he was informed that he had not; and he also inquired whether commissions must be made out in the real names of the persons to whom they are granted, in answer to which he was told

MR. DENMAN said, that he had been requested by the friends of this gentleman to state that these Questions had not been asked at his suggestion, but, on the contrary, that he was rather anxious that the matter should not have been brought before the IIouse. Mr. Jones, having determined to take the name of Herbert, in

quired in the proper quarters whether a Royal licence would be granted. He was informed that such licences were not granted unless some question of property was involved, and that therefore he would not be likely to obtain one. He felt that this was rather hard, because in the case of the other Mr. Jones a Royal licence had, as he supposed, by the interest of Lord Llanover been obtained. He then executed a deed, which he had solemnly enrolled, declaring that he had determined to take the name of Herbert, he advertised the fact in the newspapers, and sent circulars to his friends in the country, and did everything he could in default of obtaining an Act of Parliament or a Royal licence. After what the right hon. Gentleman had said, he trusted that nothing urther would be heard about the matter.

He

COLONEL CLIFFORD thought that the simple word of Lord Llanover would be sufficient to satisfy the House that he had not acted improperly in this matter. would read the following letter, which he had received from the noble Lord ::"Llanover, June 1. "My dear Clifford,-I observe by the papers that Mr. Roebuck has given notice that he will put several questions in relation to a matter connected with this county. The facts are these, as far as I am concerned as Lord Lieutenant. In December last Lieutenant-Colonel Vaughan, commanding the Royal Monmouth Militia, requested me to submit for the Queen's approval the name of Mr. William Reginald Jones for a commission then vacant in the regiment. This I consented to do, and directed the clerk of the lieutenancy to inform Mr. W. R. Jones of my intention to comply with his wishes so expressed. Mr. Jones, in reply (dated December 22), requested that his name might not be submitted until February, when he would be of age, as his father had expressed a wish to that effect. The matter was therefore delayed. On the 18th of February Mr. Jones again wrote to the clerk of the lieutenancy, stating that he attained his majority two days previously, and requested him to obtain the insertion of his name in the Gazette as

Herbert, instead of Jones, which he had heretofore been called, as, on his coming of age, his father had determined to abandon the name of Jones. Having only seen an advertisement in the county papers, and a printed notice circulated in the county by Mr. Jones, the father, stating that he and his family had assumed the name of Herbert, without any authority being cited for so doing, it became my duty to ascertain whether the Queen had been pleased to grant her Royal licence and authority that Mr. Jones and his family might take and use the name they had assumed. I was informed that Mr. Jones had made application at the Herald's College, and had failed to obtain that which he sought for. I also applied at the Home Office, and was informed that no such licence had been granted, and that all commissions must be made

out in the real name of the party to whom they were granted. I therefore directed the clerk of the lieutenancy to write to Mr. W. R. Jones accordingly, and also to inform him, that although I could not submit a name which he had assumed without Royal authority, as, if I did so, I should act in direct interference with the prerogative of the Crown, yet, if he still desired it, I would submit his real name, as I had previously promised. This Mr. Jones refused, and thus the matter stands. I forwarded a copy of the correspondence to the Home Office in March last, and Mr. Roebuck can move for it if he pleases.

"I remain, my dear Clifford, yours sincerely, "LLANOVER."

He hoped that the explanation which he had given would satisfy the hon. Gentleman and the House that the Lord Lieutenant was actuated in the course which he had taken only by a sense of duty, and that he had no hostile feeling whatever towards the young gentleman.

THE INDIAN NAVY.-OBSERVATIONS. SIR HENRY WILLOUGHBY rose to

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That, whatever policy is adopted in regard to the Indian Navy, it is the opinion of this House that the guarantee given to the Indian Officers by the Act 21 & 22 Vict., c. 106, s. 56, shall be maintained in its integrity." The hon. Baronet said, that a short time ago he brought the case of the officers of the Indian Navy before the House; but an Irish debate of six hours' duration sprang up, and he got no answer to the Question which he put to the Secretary of State for India. The subject to which he wished to call attention was the claims of various classes of gentlemen, numbering he believed about 250, who had done their country good service in the Indian Navy. When he asked the right hon. Baronet some time ago whether he could place on the table an account of the financial affairs of India, it was not with a view to obtain a copy of Mr. Laing's speech, but to see whether many important statements which had been circulated through the country were right or wrong. It was said there would be a surplus in India; but he thought the distinguished financier who had made that statement was under a mistake, and that as in this country, so in India, there would be no surplus; but he referred to the statement now, because it assumed the abolition of the Indian Navy as an accomplished fact, and the gentlemen immediately concerned wished to know what their position was. He believed that the Indian Navy, composed as it was partly of Indian seamen, was peculiarly fitted for the duties that

had been cast upon it. It had rendered | sprung from the aristocracy, but who had good service in the Persian Gulf and in come from the middle ranks-those ranks various parts of our Indian empire, and which constituted the strength and power it was doubtful whether the same species of this country. He now asked his right of service could be performed better by hon. Friend the Secretary for India to exany other body. When the House bore plain what the position of those officers was. in mind the importance of suppressing pi- SIR MINTO FARQUHAR, in rising racy, and the number of treaties which to second the Motion, merely wished to they had with Arab chiefs, a strong case express a hope that full justice would be might be made out for keeping up a cer- done to the officers referred to by the hon. tain portion of the force; but what he Baronet. He thought that the right hon. wanted to know was what were the pro- Baronet the Secretary for India must be spects of those gentlemen at the present well disposed towards those gallant genmoment. In the Indian press, and in Mr. tlemen; and he would remind him that Laing's speech, it was taken for granted when the transfer of the Government of that it had been for some time intended India was about to take place, it was to abolish the force. But surely, when a guaranteed that the pay, privileges, and body of men could quote the language allowances of military and naval officers of a statute for securing their rights, would be considered and strictly adhered to. those rights were not to be ignored by SIR CHARLES WOOD said, that when silence on the part of the Indian Execu- the hon. Baronet (Sir H. Willoughby) tive at home, and he wished to obtain a asked him what the position of the Inclear and distinct statement on the sub-dian navy and of the officers of the ject from the Minister for India. These Indian navy was, he must reply, that gentlemen had been secured by Act of as a matter of fact it was perfectParliament in the pay and privileges which ly unchanged since the government of they possessed in 1858, and it was only the East India Company had been suright that the guarantee which was given to them by Parliament should be observed. No one would pretend that the Act of Parliament to which he referred had been got up for the nonce, and that those gentlemen were to be thrown overboard as soon as a certain purpose was served. | The profession had its prizes. There were four prizes in it, which would give those who gained them about £800 a year, and, like the military, the members of the force got up funds to provide for those who retired, and for other purposes. The older members of the profession had therefore naturally been looking forward to the speedy acquisition of the prizes for which they had served. Ile was, however, informed that great anxiety prevailed among those gentlemen, because some of them had received letters from the India Office offering them small sums of money, as if their claims could be disposed of in that way. If he chose, he could show that we had got into various serious wars in the East from the want of having competent Indian officers in command. The Burmese War, for instance, was occasioned because some umbrellas were not sent down on a hot day to meet the Commodore. He hoped that the change from a Company's Government to that of the Queen would not have the effect of injuring a meritorious class, who had not

perseded, because nothing whatever had been done. Whatever might have been said in the Indian newspapers or reported through other sources, nothing had been done. If the letters to which the hon. Baronet referred had been written by Indian officers, they were not official letters, and had no authority whatever. The Government of Bombay had differed from the Government of India in reference to the measures which ought to be taken with respect to the Indian navy, and he had deferred taking any step till he should have had an opportunity of conferring with Lord Canning, with Sir George Clerk, the Governor of Bombay, and with the gallant officer now at the head of the Indian navy (Commodore Wellesley). These two latter gentlemen were now on their return home, and he was anxious to have a conference with them before he did any thing. He had not, however, the slightest doubt that there ought at any rate to be a considerable reduction. In saying that, he hoped the hon. Baronet would not understand him as differing in the slightest degree from him as to the services performed by the Indian navy whenever their assistance had been required. He was happy to join in what the hon. Baronet said in respect of those services; but the Bengal marine, which was constituted on a different footing from the Indian navy, had also performed ser

MR. BRISCOE said, he was exceedingly glad to learn from the statement of his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for India, that the just claims of the officers of the Indian navy would be fully, fairly, and liberally considered by the Government. That was all those officers de

vices not less distinguished. It was not, therefore, a fair inference that, in order to perform good service in the Eastern Seas, it was necessary to maintain the Indian navy on its present footing. He would remind the House that he was bound to reduce the expenses of the naval and military establishments in India to a minimum insired. The Government certainly ought not to do less for these gentlemen than they had promised.

IRON-CASED SHIPS OF WAR.

QUESTION.

SIR FREDERIC SMITH said, he rose to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty, Whether there is any truth in the report that the Admiralty intend to build an ironcased ship of war at Pembroke? He believed the statement would turn out to be entirely a mistake, the Government having pledged themselves to build only one iron ship at Chatham, in order to ascertain whether the prices of the contractors were fair and reasonable. That experiment, he believed, was very satisfactory, but he hoped they would not incur the expense of putting up the plant necessary for iron ship-building at the different dockyards.

order to bring the finances of that country to a proper state. Great reductions had already been made, and he was happy to say that the prospects of this year, in respect to reduction of the military establishment, were satisfactory. It was equally necessary that the expenses of the Indian navy should be in like manner reduced, and he hoped that this might be done without dealing hardly with the claims of those connected with the service. All arrangements which it might be necessary to make would be effected without in any degree infringing on the guarantee given to the public servants in India when the transfer of government was about to take place. He must, however, be permitted to put a different interpretation on the guarantee from that which the hon. Member for Hertford (Sir M. Farquhar) had given it. When an army or a regiment was reduced the effect was to diminish to a certain extent the prospects of the junior officers. But, if the guarantee referred to were taken to extend to all advantages which every officer might obtain by promotion, the Indian army and navy must be kept up for the next twenty years. It would be necessary to preserve them for that length of time, if all the advantages which their existence might confer on officers who had entered them perhaps only six months ago, were to be preserved to those officers in all their integrity. He entirely admitted that full and fair consideration should be given to the case of those officers whose prospects would be MR. G. L. PHILLIPS thought it exinjured. It was his anxious desire, and tremely inconvenient, on going into Comthat of every member of the Indian Coun-mittee of Supply, to raise these questions cil, that the claims of officers in the Indian of detail, which belonged specially to the service should be considered in that way. province of the Admiralty. This was an When a regiment was reduced in England, executive question, and he hoped therefore the officers whose services were no longer the Admiralty would maintain a firm front, required were put on half pay, whilst to the and not give way to the representations of officers of the Indian army their full pay Members connected with the dockyards, and promotion were continued as if the readvocating the interests of their own congiment to which they belonged remained in stituents. existence. It was impossible to go beyond this, and he could never admit that the House had bound itself to keep up the army and navy of India, so that no injury should be done to the prospects of the youngest officer throughout his life.

MR. WHITBREAD said, the matter had been already explained by his noble Friend the Secretary of the Admiralty. There were five wooden vessels being built at the different dockyards, which, including that building at Pembroke, it was proposed should be cased with iron. But this was not to be confounded with any intention on the part of the Government, against which recent debate, to embark in a large system a strong opinion had been expressed in a of iron ship-building. These were wooden ships to be cased with iron-they were not Chatham, was an iron ship. iron ships. The Achilles, building at

FORTIFICATIONS.-QUESTION.

MR. BERNAL OSBORNE said, he wished to ask the Secretary of State for War, When he will bring on the Vote or

Loan for Fortifications? It was of great importance that it should be discussed in a full House; and if it was not brought on soon, he should raise the question in another form, which he thought might be inconvenient.

MR. AUGUSTUS SMITH moved that

the Vote should be reduced by £473, making it £5,000.

MR. VINCENT SCULLY thought it would be best to put the University on a permanent footing. Since the House had been in Committee he had counted the number of Members in the House, and found there were six hon. Members on the Opposition benches, four on the Government benches, and-including himself, but not including the economical Member for Halifax (Mr. Stansfeld)there were below the gangway six “guardians of the public purse.

MAJOR O'REILLY said, that as an old member of the London University ho would defend the Vote. The number of students who passed the last matriculation was nearly 400.

SIR GEORGE LEWIS: My hon. Friend asks me as to the time when this subject will be brought on. A short time since he was very anxious to prevent an undue precipitation on the part of the Go vernment-Mr. BERNAL OSBORNE : We had not the evidence then.]-and requested I would give an undertaking that the question should not be proposed before the Report of the Committee was in the hands of Members, and without full time to consider the evidence. The Report is printed; but I believe that the evidence is not yet circulated among Members. I had a copy brought to me to-day, and I believe there are two copies in the library. If I had named a day before Whitsuntide, I should have been told that the evidence was not yet in the hands of Members, and that the discussion was altogether premature. Well, then, I think I have shown that I have lost no time in not bringing on the question before the holydays. What I propose is, that on Thursday after the holydays I shall endeavour to fix a day. At the same MR. J. R. MILLS thought there could time, it will, of course, depend on other busi- be nothing more pettifogging than to obness, which may be more urgent, whether Iject to a Vote of £500 for a University shall be able, with the consent of my noble Friend at the head of the Government, immediately after the holydays to name a day. Motion agreed to.

SUPPLY-CIVIL SERVICE ESTIMATES.
House in Committee.
Mr. MASSEY in the Chair.
(1.) £795, Commissioners of Educa-
tion (Ireland).

(2). Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That a sum, not exceeding £5,473, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1863, for the University of London."

MR. AUGUSTUS SMITH called attention to the increase on the Vote of last year. There was nothing on the face of the Estimates to show the items in respect of which the increase had arisen.

MR. PEEL said, that the increase in the number of examiners and exhibitions had led to a necessary increase of expense. For instance, there had been appointed two Examiners in Forensic Medicine.

SIR GEORGE BOWYER objected to the appointment of two Examiners in Forensic Medicine, and hoped the office would be suppressed.

MR. BAXTER objected to this haphazard method of striking off a few hundred pounds from a Vote. Such a course could lead to no useful result; and if the hon. Gentleman went to a division, ho would vote against his Amendment.

which was in association with so many colleges throughout the country, and which was conferring so much advantage in promoting the education of the middle classes.

MR. AUGUSTUS SMITH believed that his hon. Friend was a member of the Council of the University. [Mr. J. R. MILLS: Not now.] His object was to prevent the constant yearly additions which were made to these Votes. Surely that was an intelligible principle. He saw an item of £120 for the salary of a new officer-an assistant clerk. Now, the salary of the Registrar had been settled after correspondence at £800; and it now seemed as if, by establishing this place of assistant, Parliament was asked to make up the salary of the Registrar to a larger amount. He saw no reason why this Vote should not remain at £5,000.

MR. VINCENT SCULLY said, he was not at all surprised that the hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Baxter) should support this Vote; for the next Vote was for the Scottish Universities, which it was proposed to increase from £16,000 to £20,000. ["Order, order!"] His hon. Friend the

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