EAST GLOUCESTERSHIRE RAILWAY
BILL.-CONTEMPT OF THIS HOUSE.

REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE.

intention, upon the present occasion, to direct their Lordships' attention to the political aspect of the Italian question; but he could not refrain from pointing out that events were occurring in Italy which seemed to confirm the opinion which he had always expressed, that the result of the present confusion could never be that Italy should remain both independent and united, and he was very much afraid that it could not even remain independent. From what had within the last few days appeared

LORD PORTMAN reported from the Select Committee appointed to inquire into the Circumstances attending the Conduct of William Isaacs, Clerk to Mr. Boodle, Solicitor at Cheltenham, John Preston, Town Crier at Cheltenham, Robert Sole Lingwood, Solicitor at Cheltenham, Charles William Maisey, Clerk to the said Robert Sole Lingwood, and Wil-in papers of every shade of opinion, he liam Boodle, Solicitor at Cheltenham, with regard to the mode of obtaining signatures to the petition of Barbara Robinson, and others, of Cheltenham, presented on the 22nd of May last.

"That the Committee had met, and considered the Subject Matter referred to them, and had examined the said William Isaacs, John Preston, Robert Sole Lingwood, Charles William Maisey, and William Boodle, and report as follows:

"1. That the Conduct of the said William Isaacs, John Preston, Robert Sole Lingwood, Charles William Maisey, and William Boodle, in obtaining Signatures to the said Petition, does not indicate that they have been guilty of wilful Misrepresentation in respect thereof:

"2. That William Isaacs was not sufficiently careful in the Explanations given by him, when obtaining Signatures, of the Nature and Objects

of the said Petition :

"3. That John Preston appears to have acted under the Belief that the Representations made by him in respect of the said Petition were

correct:

was induced to think that it was not unlikely that the Government at Turin were at this moment maturing alliances, and taking a course which, in order to maintain the grumbling unity of the country, would sacrifice its independence, and, perhaps, compromise the peace of Europe. It was not, however, his intention that evening to discuss either territorial arrangements or forms of government, but to bring under their Lordships' notice a case of practical injustice. His object was to call attention to the state of the political prisoners who were now confined at Naples. Since he gave notice of his intention to take this course, he had received, from a source to him most unexpected, strong confirmation as to the grievous nature of the evils of which these prisoners had to complain, and as to the extraordinary number of persons who were at this moment suffering within the limits of the Neapolitan kingdom under the ty ranny and oppression of those whom they regarded as invaders. Within the last few days, Signor Ricciardi, a Neapolitan deputy, of strong democratic opi nions, stated in strong terms in the Parim-liament at Turin that he thought it his duty to call attention to the unfortunate condition of the Southern Italian Provinces. That gentleman made the startling assertion that at the present moment the prisons of Naples contained no fewer than 16,000 persons, who were confined in overcrowded cells, and suffered every kind of misery. When this statement was made in the Italian Parliament by Signor Ricciardi, it was not denied by Signor Ratazzi; but, on the following day, the Minister of Justice returned to the subject to express his conviction that the number of prisoners must have been exaggerated. Signor Ricciardi would not, however, abandon a single iota of his allegation, but repeated it in the most positive manner, adding that he derived his information from official docu

"4. That Robert Sole Lingwood and Charles William Maisey his Clerk ought to have been more careful in the Instructions given to William Isaacs and John Preston, when they employed them to obtain Signatures to the said Petition : "5. That Robert Sole Lingwood, as a Solicitor, would have acted more prudently if he had paid

attention to the Rumours communicated to him in reference to the said Petition :

"6. That the Committee see no Reason to pute any Blame whatever to Mr. Boodle; "And the Committee had directed the Minutes of Evidence taken before them to be laid before their Lordships."

Which Report being read by the Clerk; Ordered, That the said Report and Minutes of Evidence do lie on the table, and be printed [No. 161].

POLITICAL PRISONERS (NAPLES).

MOTION FOR PAPERS.

THE MARQUESS OF NORMANBY rose to call attention to the treatment of political prisoners at present in confinement in Naples, and to move for any information in the possession of Her Majesty's Government on the subject. It was not his

ments. As the Minister of Justice no inanimate on the floor. By whatever name longer ventured to contradict it, they his noble Friend might choose to call these had a right to infer that it was true. soi-disant official visitors, it was important If so, what a wretched state of things to know whether this information had been did those figures disclose, and how un- forwarded to him. Such was probably the answerable was their pathetic eloquence. case, as he had heard no denial of the fact It was impossible to reconcile them with of torture in prison; but an attempt to the existence of any system which re- excuse it on the supposition that perhaps spected the rights of the people and the some of the old employés of the Bourbon liberty of the subject. And what was the Government remained! When the whole popular element that could be adduced on of the magistracy, 1,600 in number, had the other side? His noble Friend the been changed, notwithstanding Sir James Secretary for Foreign Affairs said, on a Hudson's statement that the magistracy former occasion, that the popular will, were irremovable, it was not very likely which had now found expression under a that the gaolers would remain the same, constitutional Government, was sufficient or that their presence could account for to preserve popular rights from invasion. a practice of which they had no previous But it was a very startling and signifi- experience. It might, perhaps, be said cant fact, that out of the population of that we had no business to meddle with 8,000,000 which was contained on the the internal affairs of another country; terra firma of the kingdom of Naples, but that remark could scarcely proceed only 25,000 persons could be induced to from the noble Lord the present Prime vote at the parliamentary elections, only Minister of England, who was renowned one person in 320 of the population. So for his aggravating interference with the that while 16,000 persons were thrown domestic arrangements of other States, into prison for resisting what was supposed nor from the present Chancellor of the to be the will of the people, that will was Exchequer, whose interference with the expressed by only 25,000 persons. It ap- prisons of Naples under the former state peared also that the prisoners were now of things had been severely condemned subjected to torture, in order to extract by the editor of a Neapolitan journal confessions from them. Much had been who was now a deputy. He would read to the House the very words lately published by M. Petrocello della Gattina, in which that sincere revolutionist spoke rather disparagingly of the nature of the assistance he and his party had derived from Mr. Gladstone

said about the prisons under the late régime, and, no doubt, great cruelties were then perpetrated by some of the subordinate officers under the pretence of enforcing prison discipline; but at least they were free from the charge of torturing prisoners for the purpose of extorting confession. He had upon a former occasion cited a statement, which had been published in France, made by these prisoners, asserting that the practice of torture had been proved by one of its victims in the presence of Commissioners sent by the British Government to examine into these cases.

"It is time to have done with these fétiches. Poerio is a conventional invention of the AngloFrench press. When we were agitating Europe, we wanted to personify the negation of that horand exciting it against the Bourbons of Naples, rible dynasty; we wanted to present every morning to the readers of Liberal Europe a living, palpitating, visible victim, whom that ogre Ferdinand used to devour raw at every meal. For this The English purpose we invented Poerio. His noble Friend opposite and French press excited the appetite of that had objected to the term "Commission- great philanthropist, Gladstone, who repaired to ers," and denied that any Commission had Naples to see with his own eyes this new sort of been sent for such a purpose. Subsequent inan in an iron mask. He saw him. He was information which he (the Marquess of moved, and like us he set to work to magnify the victim, in order to render the oppressor more Normanby) had received, had reiterated odious. He exaggerated the punishment, in order that persons saying they visited the prison the more to irritate public opinion, and Poerio with the authority of the English Ministry was created from top to toe. The real Poerio had heard from a Captain de Blasio the has taken seriously the Poerio whom we had been details of the cruel flagellation to which halfpence a line. Those also have taken him se fabricating for twelve years in articles at threehe had been subjected with scourges of riously, who, without knowing anything about nerfs de bœuf, for the sake of extracting him, had read what we related about him." from him the names of the Bourbonist He did not believe that Signor Poerio was Committee. These executioners never better or worse than his companions. He ceased to strike till he was extended had, as had they all, the grievances of a

long imprisonment. But he the (Mar- count of the transactions to which he rẻquess of Normanby) had an opportunity fers. Indeed, my noble Friend himself on the spot of collecting indisputable evi- does not seem to have any great store of dence that one of the instances of cruel information about them, or he would not treatment given to the public on official have entertained us with a reference to authority, was the corrupt invention of a affairs so long past as the treatment of worthless informant of the British Lega- Baron Pocrio, and the other persons whose tion. Whatever had formerly been the oppression by the late Government has abuses in these prisons, it was impossible been so vividly described by Mr. Gladstone. to deny that they had all been aggravated He referred to Baron Poerio's imprisonunder the present system. He hoped ment, which certainly does not seem to the noble Earl the Foreign Secretary have much or anything to do with the would give a careful and explicit answer; treatment of political prisoners under the but he could not refrain from reminding present Government. My noble Friend the House that they had had two striking says that Baron Poerio is entirely a mythiinstances in the present Session of the cal personage-an invention of ours; all want of information by the noble Earl in I can say to that is, that I have seen Baron matters pertaining to Italy. He had Poerio as a living personage. I believe he asked a question about a particular pro- has at all times been considered a person clamation, and the noble Earl replied that of great truth and respectability, and I he was sure such a document could not be certainly heard from him that he was ten in existence, because Sir James Hudson years in prison-not, perhaps, in a dungeon had never communicated the fact to him. underground, as some persons have stated It turned out that such a proclamation with considerable exaggeration, but still had been issued, and a Motion for papers strictly confined-so strictly that no news of for other proclamations of a similar nature what was passing externally ever reached led to the avowal on the part of Sir James him with the permission of the Neapolitan Hudson that of all these proclamations Government. I have also conversed with in force last year he had never said one several other gentlemen, and one of them, word to the Secretary of State. These to whom I expressed my regret that he proceedings, of which the noble Earl re- should have been ten years confined in mained in contented ignorance, had caused prison, said to me, "It is true that I have the telegraph from the Emperor of the been harshly confined for ten years, but French, that if the Sardinian Government I would rather have been confined for ten went on in that way, the sympathies of years longer than that the detestable GoEurope would be alienated from their vernment under which I suffered should be cause. The second instance was in the restored." That shows at least the sense matter of the press prosecutions, when the which that gentleman entertained of the noble Earl was equally wrong in giving nature of the former Government. With a denial, and founding it upon a statement regard to the other stories into which the of Count Cavour some time before, that noble Marquess entered, it is scarcely nethe Opposition press might publish what- cessary for me to refer to them at length. ever they pleased, when it had since been If he will read Mr. Gladstone's letters proved that accumulated prosecutions, lead- again, he will find there statements to show ing to sentences of unequalled severity, had that the former Government of Naples was been instituted by the Government of Count as detestable a Government as ever existed Cavour and his successors against all jour-on the face of the globe. For my own nals that attempted to assert the liberty part, I must say, as I have said before, of the press in that free country. The that I heartily rejoice in its overthrow; and noble Marquess concluded by moving an I should much regret if on the face of the Address forglobe, especially in Europe, there should exist a Government so cruel and so corrupt, which introduced among its subjects such habits of falsehood and subornation, and at the same time committed against them such atrocious acts of injustice. These are my opinions. I know my noble Friend differs from them; but I do not feel, as he does, any sort of doubt that Italy will make great progress as a

Copies or Extracts of any Letters, Reports, or Information of any shape, received by the Secretary of State, as to the Treatment of Political Prisoners at present in Confinement at Naples."

EARL RUSSELL: I am sorry that the information which I have to give to the noble Marquess is of the most meagre kind, because I really have not received any ac

I nation. I have just heard that two great | Mr. Bonham on the 26th or 27th May, and Powers of Europe, Russia and Prussia, I have not yet received any answer. are disposed to recongnise the new king- certainly could not undertake to say that dom of Italy. That new kingdom, of the Neapolitan gaolers may not have rewhich my noble Friend seems to have so sorted to some of the means to which they poor an opinion, is therefore making its have been formerly accustomed. I cerway to its recognition by all the Powers of tainly will not undertake to say that those Europe. With regard to the particular persons, who have been educated under cases which my noble Friend pointed out the former Government of Naples, and to me, I have not that knowledge which who have been participators in all the he supposes me to have. I did not appoint methods of injustice practised by that Goany Commission, or agent, or any person to vernment, may not have resorted to some We know perfectly make any inquiries about them; but Mr. species of torture. Bonham, our Consul General, informed me that he had sent a gentleman, in whom he had confidence, Mr. Douglas, in consequence of some complaints which Mr. Bishop had made as to his treatment in prison. Mr. Bishop complained that his person had been searched, and that he had Mr. Dounot yet been brought to trial. glas was told that Mr. Bishop was treated with great consideration and lenity, not to say favour; that he had an apartment to Mr. himself, and a very convenient one. Bonham said that the only cause of complaint which Mr. Bishop had was, that he had not been brought to trial earlier. I agree that that was a very fair ground of complaint, and I have more than once told Sir James Hudson to complain officially that Her Majesty's Government considered it a hardship that Mr. Bishop, being accused of treasonable practices, should not have been brought to trial. I have heard within the last few days that the lists of the jury have been completed, or at least will have been completed, on this very daythe 7th of July-that an assassination case would be first taken, that the case of Count Christen would immediately follow, and that Mr. Bishop's trial would then commence. I will not enter into the question of the evidence which may be brought forward against this gentleman. I shall be glad if it turns out that there is no evidence to show that he was cognizant of the treasonable practices with which he was charged. I shall be very glad, too, if Count Christen cannot be found guilty of the charges brought against him. That is a matter, however, for trial, and I think it is a very wrong thing to enter into questions of evidence which may be brought against any person who may be brought to trial. With respect to certain prisoners having been tortured in prison, Mr. Bonham has not given me any information on the subject up to the present time. I sent the information which the noble Marquess gave me to

well what kind of persons were employed
by the late Government, and it would be
preposterous to think that these persons
would all at once become pure administra-
tors of justice and would not, on behalf of
their present masters, resort to some of
those practices for which they were com-
mended and rewarded by their former em-
Those who were employed in
ployers.
these prisons by the late Government of
cap of
Naples knew very well what the "
silence" meant, and all the other instru-
ments of torture described by Mr. Glad-
I cannot, therefore, undertake to
stone.
answer on this point. Moral improvement
is always of slow growth, I believe; but
I believe some improvement is taking place.
Even the material improvement of the con-
struction of railroads in the southern por-
tion of Italy will tend to create a better
system and to dispel the dark ignorance
that the priestly party have encouraged
with so much perseverance and success in
those provinces. Mr. Bouham says, as I
have already stated, that Mr. Bishop's
trial will immediately take place, and there-
fore we shall soon learn the result.
certainly do not think that we can officially
call upon the Italian Government in respect
of the mode in which they conduct these
trials. I do believe that if ever a revolu-
tion was justified by the misgovernment
of former rulers, it was the revolution
which has resulted in the establishment of
the present Government. With regard to
Tuscany, there was not so much ground of
complaint against the old Government; but
still, even there, there is great improve-
persons
ment; and I certainly have heard, not only
from official sources, but from
have travelled in the country, that enter-
prise and activity, information, education,
and I may say content, are making such
progress that it is something wonderful to
witness. The South has not, indeed, im-
proved so much, nor could it be expected
that could happen in a day; but still im-

I

who