feiture of the article in reference to which fraud on the public was attempted to be committed, were, he considered, insufficient. He therefore proposed to insert words, to provide that all persons so offending should be deemed guilty of a misdemeanour. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said, that the enactment in the clause did not at all put aside the character of the offence which the right hon. and learned Gentleman had described at common law. Its object was to avoid the necessity of having to adduce before a jury such evidence-which it was sometimes very difficult to get-as would satisfy them that the offence of cheating at common law had been committed. Amendment withdrawn. Clause agreed to. would consent, on bringing up the report, tion of obtaining a legal protection. The forgery of a mark was like the forgery of a check on a bank. If an intent to defraud him was proved, a man was entitled to protection, without being put to the expense of registration. He thought that a registration would be rather an impedi ment to prosecution. MR. HADFIELD supported the pro- BUCK, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said, he House resumed. Bill reported; as amended, to be considered on Monday next, and to be printed [Bill 187]. OUR RELATIONS WITH PARAGUAY. QUESTION. MR. MAGUIRE said, he rose to ask the fairs, Whether it be not true that amicable Under Secretary of State for Foreign Af Remaining clauses also agreed to. on them the character of inferior manu- MR. MILNER GIBSON said, the Committee to whom the Bill had been referred had well considered the question, and had come to the conclusion that, at present at least, it would not be expedient to attempt to establish a registration of trade marks. His objection to it was one of principle, as he did not see why previous registration of a mark should be made the condi relations have been restored between this Country and the Republic of Paraguay; if so, whether there be any objection to produce the Correspondence between the authorities at Assumption and Mr. Thornton, Her Majesty's Minister at Parana; and if any Report has been received from Mr. Hutchinson, British Consul at Rosario, in reference to the Cotton-growing capabilities of that portion of the Rio Plata, in accordance with the instructions of the Foreign Office, co-operating with the Manchester Cotton Supply Association? had been opened between Mr. Thornton MR. LAYARD replied, that negotiations and the President of the Republic of Parawhich led to the hope that very shortly friendly relations would be reestablished between the two countries. As yet the negotiations were only in progress; and, that being so, the Government could not lay the Papers on the table of the House. Mr. Hutchinson had not yet inspected the Cotton-growing districts. A request had been made by Her Majesty's Government that he might be allowed to inspect them; and when he had done so, he would make a Report. MR. LIDDELL said, he wished to ask whether, in the negotiations which have taken place, the claims of British subjects for compensation for the serious losses they have suffered have been considered; and, if so, whether those claims are to be met? being able to say that there had been an MR. LAYARD said, he was rejoiced at offer to pay a certain sum, which, he believed, the claimants had agreed to accept. AFFAIRS OF MEXICO.-QUESTION. MR. J. C. EWART said, he wished to ask the Under Secretary of State for 1422 Foreign Affairs, Whether it is probable intention whatever of altering the organl that an English vessel, loaded in England ization of the force. before the notification of the blockade, but cleared out two or three days after for the port of Tampico, would be admitted into that port in the event of its being blockaded by the French? PROCLAMATION OF LIMERICK. MR. LAYARD said, in reply, that he could not, of course, give an answer with respect to any specific case. All that he was able to say was, that the French Government had given to Her Majesty's Government an assurance that any vessel that had left any British port for Mexico previous to the declaration of the blockade, should not be interfered with by the French cruisers; and, moreover, that the French Government had given an assurance to Her Majesty's Government that it was not their intention to interfere with legitimate commerce, either on the part of French or neutral vessels, its object being merely to prohibit the importation into Mexico of the munitions of war. THE MILITARY ORGANIZATION OF QUESTION. MR. SCULLY said, he wished to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, Has his attention been called to the Resolution adopted by the Grand Jury of the County of Tipperary, at the late Special Commission in Clonmel, complaining of defects in the Irish Constabulary system, "owing to the Military organization established at Head Quarters; and is it intended to remedy those defects by reforming that organization? QUESTION. MAJOR GAVIN said, he would beg to ask why the Proclamation under the Peace Preservation Act had been extended to the City of Limerick. He was aware that a most foul murder had been committed in a remote part of the county; but the City of Limerick was, he believed, free from crime, and the people there had suffered a great deal from the distress which prevailed during the past winter and spring; but they had borne their sufferings with admirable patience. Under these circumstances he felt obliged to ask, Why the City of Limerick had been placed under such a severe measure as the Peace Preservation Act? SIR ROBERT PEEL said, the Proclamation of the county was adopted almost unanimously by the county magistrates. The hon. and gallant Member would remember that the City of Limerick extended more than six miles into the county, and the municipal boundary of the city was very wide. Under these circumstances it was thought that the Proclamation would have no operation if it did not include the City of Limerick. MR. HENNESSY said, he wished to ask whether the Government had not received from the bench of Magistrates of the City of Limerick an unanimous protest against the Proclamation of the county magistrates? SIR ROBERT PEEL said, he was not aware of any such protest. MR. HENNESSY: I have seen it. SIR ROBERT PEEL said, he was in receipt of the Resolution to which the hon, and learned Gentleman had referred, and a copy of it had been, or would be, forwarded to the Lord Lieutenant. He was glad to find that in the Resolution the grand jury had recorded their opinion of the good conduct, sobriety, and general intelligence of the Constabulary Force in Ireland. In regard to the question about "military organization at head quarters," he (Sir Robert Peel) did not know what it meant, as the present organization of the force was precisely the same as it had been for years, with the exception that the arms with which the force had been furnished were of a more excellent quality than Motion made, and Question proposed, those previously supplied. The Govern-"That Mr. Speaker do now leave the ment, so far as at present advised, had no Chair." SIR GEORGE GREY said, he had only received a letter from Mr. Spring Rice expressing dissatisfaction that his property had been included in the Proclamation, and in reply he had informed that gentleman that the Proclamation of the county had been agreed to almost unanimously at a meeting of County Magistrates. The Government had received no official remonstrance or protest. SUPPLY. Order for Committee read. THE TURKISH LOAN COMMISSION. MR. DARBY GRIFFITH said, he rose to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, What progress had been made by Lord Hobart and the Turkish Loan Commission in extinguishing the paper money at Constantinople by the application of the capital of the loan to the purpose of paying it off? and to call attention to the Report of the Commission, and also to the events now occurring in Servia; and to move an Address for Copy of any Correspondence that had taken place on that subject. The Government had manifested a generous wish to assist Turkey; but in his opinion the dry-nursing system in reference to the affairs of that country had been carried too far, as it only led the Ottoman Government into a career of ambitious conquest. It was a proof of the partiality with which the Government had acted, that they were now obliged to admit that the Report of Lord Hobart and Mr. Foster had been communicated to the contractors of the loan before it had been given to the public at large. The ostensible design of the loan recently contracted was to enable the Government of Turkey to pay off certain paper money (the Caimê); but, according to the accounts which had been received, that design, however, had entirely failed, as it was proposed to pay off only 40 per cent of that money. The consequence was, that the paper money was vastly deprecated. In addition to that, it had been discovered that great forgeries had been committed, which tended still further to bring it into disrepute. He held in his hand a real and a spurious note, which he now exhibited to the House, and which were as like each other as two peas. It was difficult to ascertain which was the real and which was the false currency of that country. It was said that the present Sultan was a man of great energy, and that he was disposed to carry out a liberal and enlightened policy. He (Mr. Darby Griffith) heartily hoped that the anticipations that had been formed with respect to the Sultan would turn out to be well-founded, and that his efforts might be directed successfully to the rectification of the financial condition of the Turkish Empire. The House had received two Reports in reference to the debt of Turkey-the Turkish and the English-raised £3,000,000; in 1855, £5,000,000, and they differed in every essential par- guaranteed by England and France; in ticular. The Turkish Report stated that there existed only about £18,000,000 of debt, while the Report of Lord Hobart and Mr. Foster stated that it amounted to over £41,000,000; and, from advices he had received, he had reason to believe that a large amount of other obligations had been contracted. It was stated in the Turkish Report that the interest on the foreign debt was £954,000, and the interest on the internal debt was £571,000, together about £1,500,000 a year, or one-eighth of the expenditure of the country; and the Report went on to state, that the interest on the other denominations of debt was also about £1,500,000 a year. Then, with regard to the new taxes. The revenue of Turkey, by the last budget, was about nine millions, and the expenditure twelve millions; but it was expected that the new taxes would produce £3,268,000, and that they would be able to effect a reduction of £685,000 in the expenditure, making together nearly £4,000,000; and thus it was hoped that they would be able to show a surplus on the year. But according to the plan of the Hobart and Foster Report about onehalf of the increase was to come from an alteration in the tenure of ecclesiastical property called Vakouf, and they all knew how difficult a thing it was to prevail upon even the mildest ecclesiastics to accept of the imposition of burdens upon church property; and therefore, considering the strength of the ecclesiastical power in Mohammedan countries and its intimate relations with the civil authority-considering that the consent of the Sheik el Islam was necessary to the legality of every edict issued by the Sultan, it was extremely doubtful whether the increased taxation would be obtainable. It was well known that the inherent weakness of Turkey was such that but for the support of the European Powers under treaty obligations, she could not maintain her position as a nation. He thought that too great a task was imposed upon Lord Hobart, because he was expected to set the finances of Turkey to rights, while the resources at his command were entirely inadequate. At the present time, also, there were more than usually heavy drains upon Turkey, owing to the Montenegrin and other wars. They themselves (the English Government) first taught Turkey to borrow, and she had shown herself an apt pupil. In 1854 she the House would not expect him to follow the hon. Gentleman through his essay upon Turkish finance, for which, as he was not the Turkish Chancellor of the Exchequer, he was in no way responsible. So far as he was aware, there was no intention on the part of the Turkish Government to conquer new territory, or to reconquer any that she might have lost; and with regard to her proceedings in Servia and Montenegro, she had done nothing in infringement of any treaty or obligation by which she was bound to those states. As to the progress made by Lord Hobart and the Turkish Loan Commission, he (Mr. Layard) could not be ex 1858, £5,000,000 more; then there was another operation of £2,000,000 by the Mirès loan; and now there was the new loan of £8,000,000—in all, £23,000,000. The result of these constant additions to the foreign debt was that the stock was continually falling in the market. The armed interference of the Porte in Montenegro was most unwise, and could only result in a useless expenditure of life and money. With regard to the events that had recently happened in Servia, he wished to ask whether, in firing on the town as he had done, faith had been broken with the English and European Consuls by the Pacha of Belgrade or not? The Porte had sent a pacha to Belgrade who was so igno-pected to give information as to what might rant that he knew no language but his have occurred from day to day. The own; and the consequence of his ignorance Foreign Office knew nothing of the matter; and bigotry was the troubles that had but when the operation was fully carried ensued. It was an anomaly unknown in out, he supposed Lord Hobart's duties would any other part of the nominal dominions cease, and that he would return to this of the Sultan for the suzerain power to country and give an account of his share maintain a garrison in the capital city of in the transaction; but they were not kept the dependent State, and a fortress, the informed from day to day what the Comguns of which were actually within range mission was doing. The hon. Gentleman of the prince's palace. He therefore de- said that a scheme had been put forward sired to know from the Under Secretary for the redemption of the paper money. for Foreign Affairs whether, as a member He was not there to criticise that scheme. of a Liberal Government, he was going to All he knew was, that it had received due justify the proceedings of the Governor of consideration at the hands of the CommisBelgrade. It was very important that sioners, and been accepted by them; and Her Majesty's Government should direct he was told that it was likely to effect the their attention to the subject, because, as object for which it was introduced. That far as their own selfish interests alone was all the information he was in a conwere concerned, they must be aware, that dition to give to the hon. Gentleman on if intestine war were to break out in that the subject. He could not furnish the portion of the Continent, there was great correspondence that had taken place in danger of its spreading into the neighbour-reference to Servia. When the events to ing countries, and there was no knowing which the hon. Member alluded took place how far the other countries of Europe at Belgrade, the Turkish Government immight become involved in the strife. He mediately recalled the pacha who was thought that the question deserved the dis- alleged to have been the cause of them, passionate consideration of the Govern- and sent there one of the most distinment. He asked, therefore, if there was guished statesmen in their service, who, any objection on the part of the Govern- in conjunction with the representatives ment to produce the correspondence re- of the other Powers, was engaged in carrylating to Servia ? ing on a thorough investigation into the circumstances which led to those unhappy occurrences, upon which, when the facts were in the possession of the Government, they would be in a position to express an opinion; but while that investigation was going on, it was obvious that it would be most improper to lay upon the table statements which were merely ex parte. Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, that She will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid before this House, a Copy of any Correspondence which has taken place between Lord Hobart and the Turkish Loan Commission, relative to the extinction of paper money at Constantinople," -instead thereof. Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question," MR. LAYARD said, he felt sure that put, and agreed to. INDIA.-QUESTION. THE NAVAL COMMANDER IN CHIEF IN ralty whether there was any truth in the rumour that several distinguished officers had, in consequence of the reduction to which he adverted, objected to go out to India as naval commanders in chief, feeling that their means would not enable them to undergo the expense attendant on the appointment. The officer who now served in that capacity was, no doubt, a very able man, but he never had had the advantage of commanding a fleet previously, or of having performed the distinguished service by which officers hitherto selected for the appointment had been characterized. He might add that the military Commander in Chief and the Commanders of Presidencies received from £8,000 to £10,000 a year, or five times the sum paid to the naval Commander in Chief. Under these circumstances, he hoped to receive some satisfactory assurance from the Secretary to the Admiralty on the subject. SIR JOHN HAY said, he rose to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty, If it is the intention of the Admiralty to make any increase in the pay and allowances to the Naval Commander in Chief in India in consequence of the stoppage of the allowance hitherto paid as batta to the Naval Commander in Chief by the Indian Government: if any inconvenience has arisen in the selection of an Officer for that command in consequence of this reduction of pay? and, to move an Address for Return of the pay and allowances of the Military Officer in Her Majesty's Forces in India of similar rank to the Naval Commander in Chief in India. The right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for India had, owing to some embarrassment in the finances of the country, thought fit to reduce the pay of certain naval officers serving in India, and among them that of the naval Commander and others, to the extent of £8,000 a year. Without going into details, he might observe that the pay of the Admiral commanding in chief on the Indian station was, up to a recent date £5,221 a year, and that by a stroke of the pen the sum had been reduced to £2,190, or by considerably more than half the amount of the salary which he had hitherto received. It had been the custom to pay a certain amount to the naval Commander in Chief as batta money, and the commodore received half that sum, and the other officers in proportion. The whole of those allowances had now been taken away. He should not have alluded to the subject, had it not been-and the gallant Admiral the Member for Devonport would bear him out in the statement-that under ordinary circumstances it was impossible for the naval Commander in Chief in India to perform the duties of his station and pay the expenses which necessarily devolved upon him for a sum of less than £2,000 a year; and whoever accepted that command under existing circumstances would, in all probability, be £400 or £500 a year out of pocket in the performance of his duty to the Crown. That the naval commander should be placed in such a position could not be, he felt assured, the wish of the House. It might be said that the amount was sufficient, inasmuch as there was no difficulty in procuring officers to fill the command; but he should like to know from the Secretary for the Admi SIR MICHAEL SEYMOUR said, he was enabled to confirm all that had fallen from his hon. and gallant Friend. The naval Commander in Chief in India and China would in future have to serve under a salary of less than half the amount formerly paid, while the expenses in that part of the world were larger than the expenses of any other station. He trusted that the subject would receive the attention of the Admiralty, and that the injustice alluded to would be removed. LORD CLARENCE PAGET said, it was perfectly true that an allowance called batta money used to be granted to all classes of officers of the navy while serving in the Indian waters, but that it had ceased and determined ever since the transference of the Government of India to the Crown. There was no doubt that the position of the naval Commander in Chief in India was therefore very much less advantageous in point of pay than it was before; but it should also be remembered that the circumstances of the present day were no longer precisely what they were when the batta money was granted. In those days they had a squadron in the Indian seas. Undoubtedly living was very expensive in India, and it was thought fit that naval officers should have allowances in consequence; but at the present time the Admiral on the Indian station was practically stationed at China, and there was no necessity for him to visit India. Then came the question whether, these llowances having been |
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