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hail wished to argue this niotion upon grounds entirely independant of the merits of the general question ; ani, upon these grounds, he should give his vote against it.

Lord Lauderdale warmly supported the motion, on the same grounds as lord Grenville.

Lord Sianhope urged nearly the same reasons in favour of it.

The Earl of Westmoreland opposed the motion, on the general grounds that no further concessions whatever should!, under the present circumstances, be granted to the catholics ; and he was surprised to sce such motions so ofien brought forward by those who, when they were themselves in power, employed every exertion to deprecate and prevent such discus ions. They were the real anthors of any ill consequences which might arise from a retusal to accede to such claims.

Lurd Redesdale could not but repeat his former objections to such claims. The more you were ready to grant them, the more rower and presension you gave to caibolics to come forward with fresh claims, and perhaps to insist upon them. The writers among the catholics of Ireland gave repeated proofs of what were their real intentions. In a book publi bied by one of them, Mr. Mkenna, it was proposed, that provision should be made for the catholic clergy out of the property of the established church; was there then' nu danyer to be feared for our establishmenis?

The llorquis of Buckingham imagined the noble lord who spoke last, liad addressed much of his speech to him, and be therefore would not remain silent. With regard to the insinuation thrown out by that learned lord, be could assure the house that there was not the smallest foundation for it. He had lived long in Ireland, and was intimately acquainted with a great number of catholics, and be could safely say, "pon his honour, he had never heard such a sentiment drop from the lips of any one of thein, nor ever had he heard from any protestant in Ireland, that such an opinion was entertained by the catholic cleroy of that country; and that if such an opinion had prevailed among them, it was most probable be should have been acquainted with it. As to the question before the house, he was surprised to hear so much reasoning advanced, which applied to the general question of what was called catholic emancipation, but which did not at all touch on the point under discussion. It was rather strange that the dangers and apprehensions which were so much dwelt upon now, seemed by no means to have entered the minds of the protestants of Ireland, when the institution of the bank of that country was first establishe ed in 1782. So far indeed to the contrary, that it a meeting of the subscribers, who then proposed to purchase the charter from government, the exclusion of the catho. lics was carried only by a single dissentient voice. Let their lordships now recollect that, in 1782, the bills had not yet passed which have since granted so many concessions to the catholics ; let them recollect, that at that period not the fear, but the actual danger of immediate invasion hung upon the coast of Ireland ; that the army of Ireland was then without pay; the navy that was to protect it, without provisions; and that the treasury of Ireland was without money to answer either object. Above all, let them recollect, that, under tbese exigent circumstances, it was an Irish catholic (Mr. Gold, of Cork) who cheerfully stood forward and advanced the money to vicinal the feet and pay the army, though the government of Ireland were bankrupt at the moment. He could adduce a hundred more instances, were it neces-ary, of a sinilar disposition to aid government in every way, on the part of those towards whom we were now disposed to act with such injustice and ingratitude. Even then, when it was proposed to introduce the clause to exclude the catholics, it was done with reluctance by the then chancellor and the chief justice of the common pleas in Ireland ; but assented to by no one with so much pain and reluctance as by himself. He knew the loyalty and patriotism of the Irish catholics; he knew their allegiance was unshakeable under every sort of deprivation and oppression; he also knew their physical strength, and comanercial opulence; every one knew that they composed in a great measare the army and navy of the empire, and that they also contributed largely to its financial resources. Yet, with the consciousness of all these means, their conduct was highly exemplary as loyal and submissive sube jects; and sure he was, that they never would evince any other sentiment. Uuder such impressions, he should act unjustly, if he did not give his most cordial support to The present motion, VOL. III.-1808.


Lord Redesdale shortly cxplained. Lord Grenville then replied, at some length, to the different objections arged against his motion ; after which the house divided on it: Contents

63 Not-contents


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WEDNESDAY, JUNE 22. The southern whale fishery bill, and the silk duty bill, were read a third time and pas ed : as were also the ex. chequer bills bill, the Tower bamlets bill, M.Dowall's estate bill, and the Irish jail bill.

The reprisal bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.

The Madeira and Brazil postage bill was reported), and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow; as were also the coffee customs bill, the coffee excise bill, and the Scotch judicature bill, which latter was ordered to be read a third time on Friday.

The woollen penalty suspension bill passed through a committee, and was ordered to be reported to-morrow.

COPYRIGHT. Mr. Villiers moved the order of the day for a committee on the copyright bill. On the question that the speaker do leave the chair,

Mr. W. Wynne should not object to the motion, if the bill were to go into a committee, on an understanding that it was merely for filling up the blanks, in order to afford time to the public and the parties concerned to judge how far it might be desirable for their interest, that the bill should pass. He thought that the time ought to be extended within which the copyright should be preserved to the author. This time, he was of opinion, ought to be twenty-eight years, as also, that no author should be allowed to dispose of his copyright for more than fourteen years. As to ile other part of the bill, requiring that a copy of cach work to be published should be sent to public libraries, the book sellers, who were the largest publishers, felt it would be so injurious to their interests, that they had prepared a setition against that part of it, which he expected woull be ready to present in the course of the evening. He put it therefore to the right honourable gentleman, whether it would not be more desirable to lei the bill lie over till next session, in order that all parties my have time to consider of its provisions.

Mr. Pilliers replierl, that the principle of the bill was not rew, as the universities were already entitled to copies of all works that hall be published ; and it could not be denied, that this circumstance was favourable to learning, as thereby students in the universities were enabled to consuli books which otherwise they would be unable to purchase. Co yrights were at present protected to the extent of twenty eight years in two different periods. But the consequence was, that in works requiring time to mature them, the author could not derive from them one half of the advantages that were enjoyed by the authors of the lightest productions. The object of this bill was to remedy this evil.

Mr. Abercrombie concurred with his honourable and learned friend, in reqnesting the right honourable gentleman not to press the bill at this late period of the session, because many of the booksellers of Scotland, and some of those of Ireland, whose interests would be materially affected by the bill, had not any knowledge of its provisions.

The house then resolved into the committee, Mr. Wharton in the chair. The blanks were filled up, and a clause introduced for extending the provisions of the bill to oriental works, after which the house resumed, and the report was immediately received, when

The Attorney General proposed that the bill be recommitted, and an instruction be given to the committee to divide the bill, in order that the part which provides for the protection of the authors might be pas ed now, and the other might lie over for consideration, though he did not think there was much weight in the objections made to that part which required that a copy of every new publication should be supplied to all libraries open to the public. This would not be a hardship to authors, bea cause this was what was required of them by the sth of An e, in return for the advantage they derived from the coryright secured to them hy that act.

On the question that the bill be recommitted,

Mr. W. Wynne, after stating his several objections to the bill, moved that the further consideration of the report be put off to this day three montis.

Lord Itenry Petty agreed in the proposition of the attorney general. He thought that the present criterion of the duration of the author's copyright was a very fallacious ore; namely, the life of the author ; anil requireid much consideration. But as to the other part of the bill, which required the delivery of a copy of each work to be published, to every library open to the public, it was only to carry into effect the spirit of the act of the 8th of Anne. He therefore thought that the bill onght to be separated, in order that this latter part should be passed, whilst the more delicate and difficult part should be suf. fered to lie over till next session.

Sir Samuel Romilly contended that the part proposed by the noble lord to be passed this session was the most exceptionable part of the bill. For his part, he did not think there could be any objection to pass that part which was to secure the copyright to authors for twenty-eight years ; hut that provision which required the delivery of copies of new works to public libraries, would have the ellect of levying a tax upon particular individuals, which ought to be defrayed by the public. In many cases of extensive works the publishers were indifferent about copyright, and if the bill were to proceed, he was of opinion that an option should be given to such persons to claim or disclaim such copyright, and, in the latter case, to be exonerated from the necessity of delivering a coy of their works to public libraries.

The Atiorney General cocurred in the justice of the observations of his honourable and learned friend, and declarci his intentioit to move a clause to that effect in the coinmittee on the bill.

The Solicitor General argued at some length in favour of passing both parts of the bill, even at this late period of the session: · Mr. Stephen observed that the bill, as it first stood, embricing both objects, was unobjectionable. But he contended that, if it were to be divided, it would be ob

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