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was unnecessary; and he only put in his claim to have the means of procuring information as to the existing regula. tions, and of judging how far amendment was required, and of what nature it ought to be. He was told that one description of pilots were appointed by the lord warden, and another by the Trinity-house; and that they were amenable to different tribunals. In what situation was he ther, who did not know what provisions already existed for securing the coinpetency of pilots, to judge of the particulars of this bill?
A conversation then took place as to the manner in which the pilots were appointed.
Mr, Tierney asked whether they were not appointed by the lord warden (who no doubt had some previous information as to their qualifications), attended by five superannuated pilots ? This, of course, must be a source of patronage to the lord warden
He subsequently stated that he had no objection to the increase of the number; his objection went to ile additional patronage which the lord warden would acquire. He suggested a remedy, which, be supposed, might satisfy all parties; and that was, that the additional pilots should, like revenue officers, be excluded from voting for members of parliament,
Mr. Jackson said that the mode of appointment was by an application to his colleague, who recommended such as be jndged capable to the lord warden.
Mr. Jenkinson observed, that persons were recommended to him by the admirals on the station as fit pere sons, and ikat he recommended them to the lord warden. But how would all this affect the votes at Dover ? His honourable colleague had talked much of the indepeod. ance of Dover ; but how was the independance of a place having about 1810 voters, to be hurt by the ad. dition of about six y ? Sir William Curtis said, that the lord warden had
every disposition to accommodate the merchants, and wanted no patronage. But whether the appointment was to be in the lord warden or the Trinity house, he cared not. What he wanted was an increase of the number. He himself was in a great corporation (a laugh) that particularly felt the necessity for this increase.
Mr. Huskisson observed that the appointment was in the lord warden and other officers, forming a court constituted by charter, and the committee ought to take care that a strong case be made out before they altered the chartered right. The competency of those appointed was proved, from their being always preferred by the officers of king's ships. He also stated, that the election of pilots was not always from among the freemen of Dover.
After some observations from Mr. Kenrick, Sir Charles Pole, and Mr. Rose, the house resumed ; the report was received ; the bill ordered to be printed, and the further consideration ordered for this day se'nnight.
The Speaker mentioned that there was a ballot to-mor. row.
Sir Arthur Wellesley moved for a committee to con. sider certain papers respecting Ilolyhead harbour. Ordered.
The committal of the Dean and New forests bill was postponed till Friday, and the bill, on the suggestion of Mr. Hibbert, ordered to be printed in the mean time.
Sir William Curtis give notice that, on Wednesday, he would make a proposition respecting the power of the lord warden of the cinque ports in appointing pilots.
The duchess of Brunswick's annuity bill was coinmitted. Report to-morrow.
The military commissioners bill was committed. Res port to-morrow.
Mr. Huskisson was sorry that an honourable gentleman (Mr. Lushington), who was to bring forward a motion on the subject of the Etrusco, was not in his place. The gallant officer whose character was much involved in that affair, could not attend to-morrow, and he therefore wished the business to be put off to a:iother day.
After a few words from Mr. Ponsonby, respecting the perpetual delays, it was agreed that, subject to the discretion of the horourable member who was absent, the motion should stand for Friday.
Mr. Rose gave notice that to-morrow he would move that the house should go into a committee to consider of the encouragement and regulation of the white lierring fishery.
He then moved for leave to bring in a bill, to provide that ships captured by the enemy, and again becoming the property of British subjects, should not be entitled to the privilege of British ships. Leave given.
The report of the Britisha militia services bill was fuse ther considered, and the bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.
The law instrument bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday:
The following sums were voted in a committee of
of December 1806, to the 24th of
£.147,179 15 0 Army extraordinaries for 1808
2,850,000.00 Army extraordinaries for Ireland for 1808
500,000 0 0 Repairing Henry the Seventh's chapel 1,000 0 0 Report to-morrow.
The committal of the land-tax commissioners bill was deferred till this day se'nnight.
The Scotch häre-shooting bill was read a second time, and committed for toomorr ,w.
The orders of council bills amendment bill was brought up, read a first, and ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday.
The copper duty bill was reported, and recommitted for to-morrow.
Mr. Huskisson gave notice that to-morrow he would move for leave to bring in a bill to enable the commissioners for auditing public accounts, finally to pass accounts audited by former commissioners, without a re-examination.
SUGAR-DISTILLATION. Mr. Coke presented a petition from the land-owners and occupiers of land in Norfolk, against the sugar distillation.
Colonel Bullock presented a petition from certain land owners and occupiers of land, in the neighbourhood of Colchester, against the sugar distillation.
Admiral Harvey presented a petition from the owners and occupiers of land in the neighbourhood of Rumford, in Essex, against the sugar distillation. All referred to the committee.
Lord Binning moved, that the house should go into a committee on the report of the West Indian committee.
Mr. Coke could not let slip any opportunity of oppos.
ing a measure so mischievous as he considered the present to be. The object of the committee had been, to point out a mode of relief for the West Indian planters; but now the ground was shified, and the sugar distillation was recom. mended as necessary in the actual state of the country, He reflected with the highest pleasure upon the speech of the Irish chancellor of the exchequer upon this subject; a more solid, a more constitutional speech, could not have been delivered; he thanked him for it, and was convinced he deserved the thanks of his country. The ground on which the Engli:h chancellor of the exchequer argued the case for the substitution was, that the price of corn was high, and that there were apprehensions of a scarcity. Both these propositions he denied. The present price of corn was no more than a remuneration to the farpier, considering the failure of the beans. There was no scarcity, nor any ground of apprehension of a carcity; then why was such a proposition held out, and a needless aların created ? If the landed interest were left to themselves, they would be able to supply the country, and save the money expended for foreign corn. It had been well observed, ibat till the interference of government with the corn laws, we had always been an exporting country; but when that interference took place, we began to import. It was the duty of the chancellor of the exclicquer iherefore to give every oncouragement to the landed interest, instead of supporting a proposition injurious to them. The honourable men ber then referred to several parts of the cvidence in the report, to shew hat, in the opinion of several of the most comptent witnesses ex. amined by the committee, the measure was not expedient with a view to the relief of the West Indian planters, or on account of any real grounds for the a prehension of a scarcity. Mr. Chalmers, chief cl rk to the lords of the committee of privy council for the consideration of trade and colonial matiers, being asked whether, exclusive of any consideration of the situation of the West Indian planters, he saw any reason why parliament should interfere to manage our resources for grain; replied, that he did not see any reason why parliament should interpose, as this might cause an alarm, and so produce the evil supposed. Mr. C. Scoit said, that if the distilleries were restrained from the use of barley after the next crop, and that crop should prove abundant, there would be a
very material fall in the price. The lionourable member stated, that he had letters from Norfolk, representing that there was every appearance of an abundant crop of barley. If this should be injured by the rain, there would be a great deal of black barley, which could be used in no way but in the distilleries. Mr. Kent, lanci-surveyor, being asked whether lie thought barley necessary to the mode of cropping in Norfolk, said that he considered the cultivation of barley as almost necessary to the existe ence of Norfolk. Norfolk, the honourable meinber remarked, might be considered as the granary of England for barley, and could not he injured without material injury to the whole kingdom. Mr. Kent being asked, whether any substitutes for barley could be found to answer the purposc equally well, answered, not; for oats would be the most obvious substitute, and them I consider to be one of the most exhausting of all crops: they rob the grass seed, and ultimately injure the wheat crops." The honourable member olserved, that a vast number of cattle were fed on the grains in the dise tilleries, and sent to the London market, a source of sup. ply which would be lost in the event of the substitution. There was another most important point, which was brought forward in the evidence of Mr. Overman; which was, that in the event of a considerable depression in the price of barley, a great part of the land in Norfolk must he left uncultivated, and fall back to its pristine state. Mr. Elwan's, evidence also went to shew, that in the event of a fall in the price of barley, a smaller number of labourers would be employed by ibe farmer ; and a , ore tion of his land, before allotted 10 grain, must be left in grass. The honourable member next adverted to the great quantities of wheat and barley brought from Norfolk to the London market; and the great injury that would arise, not only to that county, but to the whole kingdom, from any discouragement to the agricul'ure of Norfolk. He concluded by opposing the motion for the speaker's leaving the chair. He thought it best to oppose the measure in this stage; for if it went into a committee, almost the whole session migbt be occupied in discussion, and bear. ing counsel on the various petitions.
Mr. Rose would wish the house to take up this ques. tion upon a much wider ground than the honourable gentlemen who opposed it seemed to do. That the West