Mayor CRABB. We talked about job creation, and certainly it's a very involved issue. But I do want you to look at what the Conference of Mayors has put together.

There is a several-step plan for both short- and long-term. The Public Works Program is an immediate infusion of jobs into this country, over 400,000 jobs can be created, no start-up time needed, people ready and able to do the work, followed closely by the other programs that are addressed. So, if you don't have a packet, I would like to leave one for you.

The second thing is about values. And I think that this is where we really look to the national leaders for their leadership. When we have confusion about what's right and wrong in this country, sometimes it can go right back to the National Government.

For example, when we mentioned the homeless and mentioned the mentally ill, they are right here in the Nation's Capital, and we walk over them, we step over them on the street, what kind of message does that give to the people in our country of what is right and wrong,

I think by our very governmental actions, we can clearly state what is ethical and what is moral in our country. So if we develop strong policies of what is right and wrong in this country, I think we will find that other issues will fall in place.

The CHAIRMAN. Before I call on Senator Graham, I'm struck by your point. You were making the point, in effect, that national values have something to do, in the end, with personal values.

Mayor SAXON-PERRY. Right.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, if people see good national values, it may help them have good strong personal values.

Mayor SAXON-PERRY. People yearn for moral leadership. They really do.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Graham?

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BOB GRAHAM

Senator GRAHAM. Mr. Chairman, first I want to add my voice to those expressing appreciation to you for calling this hearing today, and the others that I know we're going to be having in the next several days, in order to focus our attention on this issue.

I just have one comment and question, which picks up on the theme of values.

What disturbs me is that I already see a message beginning to emerge that this issue of the Federal Government's relations with the cities is going to be an episodic one. That is, we've had a crisis, we've had a riot. We're now going to do something about that, question mark, as to whether there's going to be a long-term commitment.

The form that I see that message being delivered is that we're not going to pay for this problem. There's a proposal made to exercise the emergency authority that the President and the Congress have which essentially takes this out of the current budget and just adds it to the deficit, that we not raise any new revenue to pay for this new national commitment and obligation.

I think all of those send a signal of lack of sustained commitment, a lack of seriousness of purpose.

I believe, and I would like to ask the question of you, that you share that if we're serious about doing something about our American cities, they didn't get into the problem that they're in quickly, and they're not going to get out quickly. That this is going to take a long partnership. This is a marriage, not an affair, that we are about to have. And that we need to be prepared to bring to this marriage, the kind of long-term commitment, including a means of financing that long-term commitment that will be required in order for this marriage to reach the positive conclusions and to build the kind of strong family that we hope to achieve.

Mayor SAXON-PERRY. You're absolutely right on the one issue, that it's not episodic; it certainly has to be long-term.

We met earlier today with the leadership in the House, and are prepared to develop some sort of comprehensive long-term strategy, which of course would include, how do you pay the bill.

I guess there were 50 nobel writers who said that probably, and I hate to say that to you-you're probably that Gramm-Rudman, right, with the

Senator GRAHAM. No.

Mayor SAXON-PERRY. That isn't the Graham? OK. Now I'll feel more relaxed about saying it. It has to do with maybe that we have to increase the deficit in order to meet this in a long-term way, then that's what we should be about. So that's one of the ways.

There's also, as you know, been on the table a 5-year plan in diverting the money from the military and diverting it to some domestic needs.

And so those are the two issues.

But hopefully, and we would probably want to have dialog with the Senate also, in trying to develop a strategy in which we can have something that will take us into the year 2100.

Senator GRAHAM. That Senator Gramm is a very fine person. He's my Germanic cousin from Texas. I'm from Florida and Scotch. All of the dimensions of that word, Scotch.

Mayor CRABB. Senator, if I could try to address your question.

The L.A. incident was very ugly, and I believe that most people in this country knew that something was going on. But when they looked at that incident, it was like looking in a mirror and not liking what you saw.

And there were several other mayors here today that said people in their community were really rallying, business people, people from all walks of life, because they did not like what was happening in this country.

So to simply say it was an isolated incident and that we should put some money toward it and use it as a public relations item with a quick political fix is not going to solve the issue. I believe that there are some very serious concerns that need to be addressed in this country.

I also have to say that, in terms of how to pay for them, we're paying for them now. We're paying in so many ways. We're paying through the unemployment, I believe, that you're addressing, the extension of the unemployment. That's money going to people for one particular reason.

We pay through the welfare system. We pay through the jail system. We pay through the judicial system.

It's not as if we are not investing in the people in this country; we are. But we're just choosing different ways to invest.

So, a last word from myself. I believe that if we set the priorities to investing in people for the right reasons, then it would be much easier to address the future concerns, and to make sure that this country lives up to its reputation that if people work hard, they will be able to make a living and take care of themselves.

And it's going to need a little Government involvement or a lot of Government involvement to get the train on the right track. Mayor SAXON-PERRY. Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes?

Mayor SAXON-PERRY. Are we excused?

Senator DOMENICI. Let me just make one comment.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sasser?

Senator SASSER. Let me just say for one more second.

I'd like to comment on something Mayor Crabb said about we invest one way or another. I don't think that's really-I follow your line of reasoning, but I don't think that's really what you meant to say.

When we spend on penitentiaries and when we spend on jails, that is spending by default. We're spending because we're defaulting on the investment. And that's money wasted.

If that money were actually invested in a constructive way to create jobs, to train the human resources, then that would be an investment. But we're simply having to spend by default.

Now, on the question of assisted housing, the budget authority has been cut by 81 percent in assisted housing in real terms since 1980, I'm advised. Outlays have increased for a number of reasons. Because people are poorer, number one. Second, because we're serving a few more people. And also because we're dealing with significant inflation between 1980 and the present time.

But the problem is that we're serving fewer new people each year with assisted housing. We're serving about one-third of those who are eligible. In 1978, we took on 300,000 new households in assisted housing. In 1993, the President proposes taking on only 80,000 new assisted households. And this comes at a time when the country is poorer, it's more desperate, the population is larger.

So that's the reason, or I think that's one of the large reasons why we are stepping over people in the street, and why we are embarrassed when citizens of other countries come here and see what's happening in the streets of this country.

We don't see this kind of thing in other highly developed industrialized countries. When an ambassador goes to present his credentials to the government of Germany in Bonne, he doesn't see people living in the streets right across from where he presents his credentials. The same when he goes to Paris or London or Brussels or Rome. It's just here in the United States of America that you see people living in the streets in that type of situation. It's really something that's got to be addressed. And we ignore it at our peril. What occurred in Los Angeles was horrible, but maybe it was a wake-up call. And as Mayor Saxon-Perry has said, I do see a change in people's attitudes. It's being picked up in the polls.

Read the New York Times poll a few days ago, and you'll now see that the American people are saying, in the 60 percentiles, that

we're not doing enough for cities, we're not doing enough for education, we're not doing enough for the deprived in our society. A total turn-around, a total turn-around from what those polls were saying just a year or two ago.

People are embarrassed, they're ashamed, and they're frightened. And I think Senator Graham put his finger on a very significant point. And that is that this is just a transitory gesture that we're seeing now.

And what we need is a long-term commitment and a way to fund the rehabilitation and the reinvestment in the cities and in the human resources of this country. And hopefully, that's going to be the message of the decade of the 1990's. Because, if it's not, I think it's Katie-bar-the-door.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. I know that Senator Domenici wants to make a comment, and I'm going to call on him in a second.

We had one of our witnesses earlier today, I think before you came in, pointing out, just in terms of how we approach this problem, that the cost of incarcerating someone in a prison, I think the figure was something

Mayor SAXON-PERRY. $80,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Something approaching $100,000 a year, which is certainly much higher than it is to send somebody to college at Yale or Harvard or some other high priced institution of higher learning.

But quite apart from the economics, I think the economics every time will work out in favor of investing in our people. Invest in your people and you're going to have better outcomes all the way along the line. And you're going to have a better society, and it's going to be more decent and presumably it's fundamental to what the human approach to things should be.

But, by the same token, I think if we turn our back on these problems, and allow these situations to just worsen, as we have largely done in this country, we're going to have impossible conditions on our hands. And we have that increasingly each day.

And America does need to establish some values at the top, if we want to have values further down in this society. I mean, the Government has to care about its people if it expects its people to care about the Government.

Mayor SAXON-PERRY. May I just say, before the Senator leaves, about-oh, he's gone.

I think she meant that you're going to pay, one way or the other. Mayor CRABB. I believe that everyone understood that it was just the wording.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes. That's helpful.

Senator DOMENICI. Let me just make one clarification, and then make sure that our two mayor friends don't leave without knowing, without my telling them something about the mentally ill on the streets that I happen to have been involved in.

My only point with reference to housing assistance, mayor, and your point is very well taken that we maybe have, that there more people need it, but the number of housing assistance families did not go down 80 percent. In fact, it went from 3.1 million to 4.4 million, which may be totally inadequate. But I was just trying to cor

rect, when we say it was cut 80 percent, we're talking about one kind of public housing, while the other kinds went up. So that we have more, not less. That's the only point I was making.

And second, I want you to know-both of you to know that on the mentally ill in the streets of America, I guess I don't brag very much about myself here, but I know as much about it as any Senator.

The two bills that we have on helping the mentally ill on the streets, both of them I introduced and the Senate passed; both with Senator Simon.

One of the problems we have-and you probably know it-about the mentally ill in your cities and on the streets, is if you're going to help them, you don't only need housing, you need housing and the health care that goes along with it. And you would be absolutely amazed how tough it is to get that through the Congress.

I mean, Congress passes housing assistance and it passes health care assistance for the mentally ill, but to put them together is just almost impossible. In fact, we have two separate grants, and sometimes they come out together, and sometimes not.

So we have some hang-ups on the problem, too, but we're trying, and there's more money in that than we've ever had, because we didn't do anything for this target group 5 years ago.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, mayors.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. I want to thank you both for your patience in staying so long and being so helpful to us today.

Mayor CRABB. I would like to thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This was very wonderful of you to give us the opportunity, plus all of the Senators who stayed and shared their opinions with us. It was very helpful. And, again, we look forward to working with

you.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, this is not a one-shot deal. We're going to have a hearing in here tomorrow morning with Jack Kemp and Jesse Jackson and some others.

So I'm hopeful that if you're not here, you'll be able to follow what is said then. And we'll have hearings beyond that, but then we intend to move ahead with our programmatic response, as well. Thank you both very much.

The committee stands in recess.

[Whereupon, at 5:20 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

[Prepared statements and additional material supplied for the record follow:]