H. or R] Indian Appropriations-Emigration of Indians. [FEBRUARY, 1828. Mr. MODUFFIE moved the consideration of the bill making appropriations for the Indian Department, for 1828. That bill having been taken up, Mr. McDUFFIE moved to insert, after the above amendment, the following: "For enabling the President of the United States to extinguish the title of the Cherokee Indians to any lands in the State of Georgia, where it can be for aiding the said Cherokees, and such other Indone upon peaceable and reasonable terms,' and dians, as may be so disposed, to emigrate to places west of the Mississippi, $50,000." Mr. McD. said, that the War Department had asked a large sum for this object; that the Committee of Ways and Means, not feeling competent to decide, had moved to be discharged from the consideration of this part of the subject, and, at their request, it had been referred to the Committee on Indian Affairs; that committee had reported on the subject, recommending the sum now in the bill, and, on their recommendation, it had been inserted. He believed the appropriation to be a perfectly proper one, and hoped it would prevail. two members from the larger States: see, then, | Indian Appropriations—Emigration of Indians. to what a body this Board may grow. A gentleman from Massachusetts, with more of liberality than had been exhibited by some others, had admitted that there should be a limit fixed, and contended that this limit is established by the appropriation. But I confess that I see no limit at all. We have given the Department $1,500, while, before, they had nothing; and "For aiding the emigration of the Creek Indians, they still have the same contingent fund within providing for them for the period of twelve months, their grasp as they had before. The same gen-after their emigration, and for rendering them such tleman has said, that we ought to pay the ex-assistance as the President of the United States may pense of the Visitors only while they are in think proper, in their agricultural operations, $50,actual attendance at West Point. But, take the 000. doctrine of the gentleman who is at the head of the Committee of Ways and Means, for our principle, and where is our limit then? That gentleman tells you that, if the Executive has made a contract, and a work has been performed under it, the House is bound to make the appropriation. If so, it is nonsense to talk about limiting the Executive. He has no limit whatever as to the States whence the Visitors are to be taken, the length of time they are to serve, the number of the Board, or the compensation they are to receive. All this may be embraced in a law. If the Executive wished for such power, he might have recommended the subject to the Legislature, and obtained it in a regular manner. The regulation read by the gentleman from Florida, said, that the Board was to consist of not less than five members. But the number has already grown to 11, 12, and sometimes to 14 members. I hope the House will either agree to reject the doctrine of limiting the Executive, or reject this item of the bill, and that we shall not take up a doctrine one day, and lay it down the next, just as may suit gentlemen's temporary convenience. We have been told that it belongs to an appropriation bill merely to provide the means of carrying into effect pre-existing laws. But here, no law is so much as pretended. But we are called upon to sanction, by a side-wind, alawless assumption of power by the Executive. One word more, and I have done. We are all sensible of the extent of the Executive patronage, and it seems generally agreed that that patronage ought not to be extended without urgent necessity. Now, there is no form in which it exists, which strikes me so unfavorably as this. All have declared that no man, while a member of this House, can receive and hold any Executive appointment; but here is a case in the very teeth of that declaration; he receives an appointment which, if not of honor and profit, is at least complimentary in its character, while he retains a seat here: and though we now propose to allow only his expenses, yet there is no limit nor safeguard. The same principle would authorize the enlargement of the emoluments to any extent. To such a principle I can never lend my sanction. The motion of Mr. BASSETT was rejected. Mr. HAILE inquired if the Chickasaws were included in the amendment? The Chair replied that they were virtually included in the words "all such other Indians," which immediately followed. Mr. HAILE then moved to insert the word "Chickasaws" immediately after the word Cherokees. Mr. MOLEAN (Chairman of the Committee on Indian Affairs) said he could see no need of inserting this word-a bill had been prepared and reported by the Indian Committee to provide aid for the removal of the Chickasaws, and would soon come up in order. Mr. HAILE replied, that his State was vitally interested in this matter. He thought that the Committee on Indian Affairs had done her great injustice in excluding her from the appropriation bill. That was a bill that always passed. The private bill to which the gentleman had alluded might not, and probably would not, be reached during the session; and he should like to know why a distinction was to be made in favor of the Creeks and Cherokees, when no agent had been sent among them; while the Chickasaws, to whom an agent had been sent, and who had expressed their willingness to remove, were excluded from the bill. Other States and Territories could be aided, and the Treasury exhausted to relieve them from the burden of their Indian population; but his State, in which an Indian country, of 150 miles in extent, separated an FEBRUARY, 1828.] Indian Appropriations-Emigration of Indians. [H. OF R. entire county, with all its inhabitants, from the | ment is bound to take the earliest opportunity residue of the white population, was to be of extinguishing the Indian title to lands in neglected, although her Representative had Georgia; and he desired the Chairman of the been the very first to move a consideration of Committee on Indian Affairs to state whether this subject. This he considered as great in- that was not the object intended to be provided justice. for in this appropriation. Mr. LUMPKIN observed, in reply, that this Mr. MCLEAN replied in the affirmative. subject had early been brought before the Com- Mr. HOFFMAN replied, if that was the case, mittee on Indian Affairs. They had given a he thought there was good reason why the prompt and serious attention to it, and there amendment should not be adopted. Every renow lies on the table of the House a bill pre-flecting man must be anxious to see the compared and reported by them for the very object pact of 1802 fulfilled in good faith. But the the gentleman from Mississippi had in view. Chickasaws were not involved in its provisions, But, in this case, he saw verified that ancient and stood upon an entirely different footing. declaration, that the last shall be first, and the Mr. Woods, of Ohio, wished to know whethfirst shall be last. The appropriation bill pro-er the provision for the Cherokees was introviding for the removal of the Creeks and Cher- duced in fulfilment of any treaty with that okees had brought that subject first in order. tribe. But he trusted that, if the gentleman would exercise a little patience, the subject he had so much at heart would come up in its turn, when he promised that gentleman he should find him (Mr. L.) disposed to act with the utmost liberality, and to promote his views, as far as it was in his power. But, to lug in that subject at present, could only defeat other objects, and take $15,000 or $20,000 from an appropriation already, if any thing, too small. Mr. McLEAN replied, that it had been inserted in conformity with the compact between the United States and Georgia, by which compact it became the duty of the General Government, at all times, to stand in readiness to extinguish the Indian title within that State, so soon as it could be done on reasonable and peace able terms. The subject to which the gentle man from Mississippi alluded, had been among the very first to which the Committee on Indian Mr. HAILE replied, and remonstrated. He Affairs gave their attention: and they had achad moved a resolution respecting the removal cordingly reported a bill providing for the reof the Chickasaws. The gentleman from Geor- quest of that tribe, that they might be permitgia had introduced the Creeks into his resolu- ted first to examine the land proposed to be tion, and then the Cherokees, and the gentle- given them, before they should decide on relinman from Florida brought in the Seminoles. quishing what they at present possessed. It He had entreated the gentleman not to embar- would be surely improper to provide for extinrass his motion in this manner. But, embar-guishing their title at this time, when it was rassed as it was, it went to the Indian Commit- but a few months ago that they had expressly tee. That committee had taken up the Creeks refused to remove. He was therefore at a loss and Cherokees, and sent them to be provided to know where was the ground for the comfor by the Committee of Ways and Means, plaints of injustice so loudly made by the genleaving the Chickasaws, who were the first-tleman from Mississippi. The estimates of the named in the resolution, to the precarious hope of coming in afterwards, by a separate bill. În this he thought they had done him very great injustice. That committee had no right thus to separate the tribes. If any went into an appropriation bill, the Chickasaws should have gone first. He had expected some little liberality from the gentlemen from Georgia, but they had crowded down his resolution, and then left him out. He perceived that a man could expect little from his friends in this House. He was resolved, for the future, to rely upon the liberality of no man. He demanded nothing but justice, and that House should ring with his voice till he obtained it. Mr. HAYNES said, that this difficulty could easily be reconciled. Let the amendment of the gentleman be adopted, and the sum appropriated be proportionably increased. He thought there was a propriety in including all the southern Indians, as the same policy appiled to them all. Mr. HOFFMAN had no desire to interfere in a matter of this kind, but he was one of those who believed that the United States Govern Department had been referred to the Indian Committee; their report upon them had been approved by the Committee of Ways and Means; and this last committee had, in consequence, inserted the item in the bill. Mr. HAILE replied, and insisted upon the ground he had formerly taken. $50,000 had formerly been appropriated in the case of the Creeks, and now $50,000 more are proposed, although the Creeks say positively they will not remove. But the Chickasaws have written a letter to the Governor, signifying their willingness to emigrate, and yet they are to be excluded from the bill. An appropriation in their case, Mr. H. insisted, was the only one from which the Government could derive the least shadow of benefit. He thought a new system of legislation was getting into this House, by which an appropriation bill was made the lever to force measures in favor of one section of the country to the injury of another. He protested against this, and then proceeded again to urge the claims of the Chickasaws. Mr. BATES, of Missouri, said he understood H. OF R.] Indian Appropriations-Emigration of Indians. this to be a bill regularly reported every year, providing for the ordinary annual expenses of the Indian Department. If special objects were to be provided for, special appropriations ought to be made to meet them; and if such an object as was contemplated by the amendment, was to be brought into this bill, all other special objects might as well be brought into it. In addition to this, something might be said on the question where the Government meant to invite these Indians to settle. He was aware that it would not be in order to discuss that question at this time. One objection to the amendment was this, that it gave unlimited authority to the officer at the head of the War Department, to give direction to the march of this tribe when it should remove. It either allowed him a boundless discretion, or else it was a barren appropriation, effecting nothing. When the bill which had been reported by the Committee on Indian Affairs should come up, the whole subject would be open for discussion; but, at present, such an appropriation would be perfectly anomalous in a regular annual appropriation bill for the Indian Department. It was well known, that the regular expenses of that Department amounted to less than the irregular expenses of it-the former amounted to about $80,000, while the fund for contingencies was $95,000. [FEBRUARY, 1828. Mr. SPRAGUE said that, in justice to the Committee on Indian Affairs, it was proper to state, that, if any complaint at all was made in this matter, it should be against the Committee of Ways and Means. The item came from that committee in the same manner as every other item in the bill. It was not the Committee of Indian Affairs that had placed it there. They had only reported in favor of a measure which appeared to them expedient and proper. He hoped the House would not go into a general discussion of all our Indian affairs on the present bill. It was very evident that gentlemen in all parts of the House were alive to the subject, and it must be acknowledged, that it was one attended with extreme difficulty at all times. Mr. S. said he had himself had many and great difficulties to surmount in assenting to the appropriation already agreed to, and he hoped that, in a mere incidental debate, the general policy of the removal of the Indians would not have to be taken up and decided. It had forced itself on his observation, since he had been a member of this House, as a great evil in the mode of its legislation, that subjects of the greatest weight were forced upon the House in the most unexpected manner, by mere incidental motions. The consequence was, that they were discussed when gentlemen were not fully prepared for them, and hours and Mr. B. said he could not vote understanding-days were wasted on questions not properly ly in this matter, unless he had the means of connected with the main subject before the inquiring further into it. He would go heart House. There were special reasons applying and hand with the gentleman, if the Indians to the case of the Creeks and Cherokees, which were troublesome neighbors, and they wished did not apply to the other Indian tribes. If to get rid of them, provided this could be done the Chickasaws were introduced, all the other without injuring other people. The bill says, Indians would have to follow, because gentle"to emigrate west of the Mississippi." Now men stood ready to introduce them, to whose it was not the first time that Indians had been States they were as great an annoyance as the brought from other parts of the country, and Chickasaws were to the State of Mississippi. placed down in the bosom and very heart of The same argument would be urged in every the State from which he came. Here he enu- case, and there would be no end to the amendmerated the Kickapoos, Weas, and several oth-ments. He hoped, therefore, that now proer tribes, who had thus been removed. He said his constituents, many of them, lived, to Mr. WHITE should only detain the committee be sure, in the woods, and were on the borders a few minutes at this late hour of the day. If of the republic-but still they had some desire there was any merit in having the subject first to improve their situation, as well as other peo- proposed in the House, the gentleman from ple-and they did not wish to have a body of Mississippi would do him the justice to say, Indians placed down in the midst of them by that his was the second proposition on this their Government, and still less, if the power subject, having been moved as an amendment to do this was to be exercised by a sub-agent to the resolution of that gentleman, referred to of the War Department. If once the promise in debate, and which would have been moved was given to the Indians, although by an unau- in a separate form, if it had not been adopted thorized agent, they would count upon its ful-in conjunction with that. This, said Mr. W., filment. They knew none of our distinctions is a subject of deep interest to the Territory I as to authorized and unauthorized officers of represent; and, if the amendment now prothe Government, and if the promise was not posed, be adopted, I shall feel myself bound to fulfilled, their sense of justice and good faith move to insert in this bill the Florida Indians. was shocked. The gentleman from Mississippi, I do not wish to embarrass the amendment of however, need fear no opposition from him, the member from Mississippi, but he must perwith respect to the removal of his Chickasaws, ceive that the success of his motion will leave if he would only act on the good old maxim, me in a worse situation than the one in which so use your own as not to injure others. Mr. he is placed. The bill reported by the ComB. concluded by saying he should vote against mittee on Indian Affairs, provides an appropriall propositions like that now moved. ation for the purpose of enabling "the Chicka posed, would not prevail. FEBRUARY, 1828.] Indian Appropriations-Emigration of Indians. [H. OF R. Indians, I should be glad to see it carried; but, in its present form, I am opposed to it, without including ours. I can inform the gentleman from Missouri, that it is not contemplated to locate the Indians within his State, but west of it, and north of Arkansas, and upon lands to which the United States have an undisputed title, not within the limits of any State or Territory. Mr. LUMPKIN said he perceived the subject was misunderstood, and this could arise only from a want of attention on the part of the House. He was aware that this was not the time for a general discussion of our Indian affairs. He thought the remarks of the gentleman from Missouri (Mr. BATES) were well worthy of attention. But he thought this was not the time or place for considering it. Mr. L. said he would endeavor to point out the distinction between the cases of the Creeks and Cherokees, and that of the Chickasaws and other tribes. The amendment proposed by the Committee of Ways and Means, and which provides for the removal of the Creeks and Cherokees, had been introduced in consequence of the estimates received from the War Department, in relation to that subject. When those estimates came into the House, they were referred, as of course, to the Committee of Ways and Means. That committee very properly moved for their reference to the Committee on Indian Affairs. This latter committee had carefully examined the estimates, and had reported favorably upon the subject. It was then sent back to the Committee of Ways and Means. saw and other Indians," to explore the country west of the Mississippi. Now, sir, I understand that the "other Indians" in the bill, are those which are the annoyance of my constituents; and, if the Chickasaws are now included in this bill, I shall be without a "loop to hang a hope upon;" and I now give notice, that, if this succeeds, I will not depend on the remote hope of reaching the other bill, but also move my amendment. I cannot concur with the gentleman from Maine, (Mr. SPRAGUE,) that this is not the time or place to discuss this subject. The subject now under consideration, as legitimately belongs to this bill, as the proposed appropriation for the Creeks and Cherokees. Where is the difference? The member from Maine, who is a constituent member of the Committee of Ways and Means, says this subject comes from the War Department, has been sanctioned by the Committee on Indian Affairs, and is contained in a certain convention between Georgia and the United States. Now, sir, I tell that gentlemen, that the subject of the removal of the Florida and Chickasaw Indians also comes from the War Department, under grave recommendations, and has also met the favorable consideration of the Standing Committee of this House, to whom the subject appropriately belongs. So far the parallel is complete and, as to the convention with Georgia, I cannot agree that, on that account, one shall be placed in a regular appropriation bill, and the other left to the uncertainty of its fate, at a session that promises so little. I ardently hope that Georgia may succeed in having her convention executed to the letter Mr. L. said, that, as a member of the Comand spirit. But, sir, the obligations of human-mittee on Indian Affairs, he had expected this ity, and the imperative dictates of sound poli-item to be provided for in a separate bill, but cy, impose as strong an injunction on this Gov- the Committee of Ways and Means had thought ernment to provide for the removal of the otherwise, and had concluded to provide for it Florida Indians, as any compact or convention in the present appropriation bill. Now the can require. The miserable condition of these distinction which gave a preference to the people has been presented to you, by your own Creeks and Cherokees was, that a treaty had officers, in a language not soon to be forgotten. already been made with the Creeks, which You have been told that they cannot subsist could not be fulfilled, without a part of this within their present assigned limits, and must appropriation, and the residue was equally nestarve, or plunder their neighbors. An appro- cessary to enable the Government to fulfil its priation has been made by Congress to feed compact with Georgia, in relation to the Cherthem; re-examinations ordered by the Secre- okees. No such treaty or compact applied to tary of War, and a return again made by Gen- the other tribes. It was the understanding of eral Gaines, that they cannot live within their the committee that the application of this sum limits. A very respectable and highly distin- depended on the free consent of the Indians; guished officer, Colonel Clinch, of the 4th regi- neither force nor favor was to be made use of; if ment of infantry, attended General Gaines on their removal could be effected on such terms, it the last examination, and he concurs in the was well; if not, the means appropriated would opinion that they must steal or starve. Now, remain in the hands of the Government. But sir, the claims of Georgia may be strong, but without the appropriation, it was impossible that how can we, looking to the humanity and poli- the Government could fulfil its compact with cy of our Government, and, moreover, refer- Georgia. Mr. L. said he would not enter, at ring to the certainty of future collision, which this time, on the subject of the claims of that must be attended with the loss of blood and State. He knew the impressions which many treasure, and demands for indemnity, refuse to gentlemen had received in relation to them. place the two objects on the same footing? If But, whatever warmth was charged upon her this motion was to add the appropriation of Government, by those who had misrepresented $15,000, reported for our object, to that in this her motives, when the truth was fully known, bill, and include the Chickasaw and Florida it would appear, that, so far from being chargeVOL. X.-2 X H. OF R.] Indian Appropriations—Emigration of Indians. [FEBRUARY, 1828 able with urging unwarrantable demands, her | this Administration, he would set down, as a forbearance on this subject had been without a prominent item, the sanction which it had parallel. She had waited for twenty-five years given to this system. He was for tying up the for the fulfilment of the contract made by the hands of the Executive until the House had an General Government, and she had witnessed, opportunity to know what plan was to be purduring that time, the extinction of the Indian sued. He was against removing the Indians title to entire States which had been admitted west of the Mississippi, and as far as principle into the Union. Yet she had continued to was concerned, he would as soon vote to place wait, until she perceived it to be adopted as a them northwest of the Ohio. The subject was settled policy, that those Indians were to be one of deep interest to the country. Gentlekept within her limits. He knew that the peo- men would recollect that his amendment did ple and the Government of Georgia had been not touch the sum appropriated, but only represented as wishing to bear down these un- a particular application of that sum. If it happy people, and to treat them with harsh- prevailed, the appropriation would be left for ness and oppression. Nothing could be farther removing the Indians from Georgia. He did from the truth, or could do more injustice to not wish to sanction the policy of the Adminthe feelings of the people of Georgia. Their istration in this matter, which he considered as pity and solicitude for these wretched tribes, one of their errors. Treaties were made by were felt to a degree which could not be ex- men invested with almost unlimited discretion, pressed. Their removal was never contem- and over whose acts, when once done, this plated, or intended as a compulsory measure. House had little or no control. He would not They were to remove in a peaceable and volun- go farther into the subject, except to state, tary manner, or not at all. The arrangement that, no longer ago than last year, the Governprovided for by the amendment of the Com- ment had received a positive refusal from the mittee of Ways and Means, appeared to him Chickasaws to emigrate. Since then, an agent fair and just. He was equally willing to re- has been sent to make his bow, and they had move the wretched remnants of these people consented so far as to examine the lands. from all the other States, for he could truly say, that it was among the warmest wishes of his heart, to benefit these poor suffering remnants of the aboriginal race, in a way the most effectual and permanent. The question was then put on the amendment of Mr. HAILE, and negatived. Mr. Woods, of Ohio, moved to amend the amendment of Mr. McDUFFIE, by striking out the words "and for aiding the said Cherokees, and such other Indians as may be so disposed, to emigrate to places west of the Mississippi." This amendment, he thought, would meet the views of both committees, and would, also, remove the difficulty of the gentleman from Missouri, (Mr. BATES.) The subject was not a new one. It had been agitated for years, and had been particularly discussed at the last session, at which session a bill had been introduced, similar to that now reported, from the Indian Committee, but had never been called up. If a general course of policy was thus to be introduced and sanctioned by an item in the appropriation bill, that bill might be made an instrument of changing the whole course of the Government. He did not wish to interfere with the obligation of treaties, but he knew of no treaty with the Cherokees which provided for their emigration. He was willing to do all that was necessary to fulfil the compact with the Government of Georgia, but he was not willing to say that it was the settled policy of the Government that those Indians were to be removed. The gentleman from Kentucky had been right, the other day, in saying that there ought to be no treaty with any Indian tribes, unless there had been a previous appropriation; but a different practice had prevailed; and if called upon to make out a list of the sins of Mr. McDUFFIE said, that the Committee of Ways and Means had not only felt no disposition to give a preference to this provision for the removal of the Creeks and Cherokees, but had felt a disposition directly the reverse. The proposition had not originated with them, but came strongly recommended from the War Department. He had, in consequence, been instructed to ask that the Committee of Ways and Means might be discharged from the consideration of the subject, and that it might be referred to the Committee on Indian Affairs. This last committee had reported upon it, and recommended the appropriation in the very language now inserted in the bill. He could not agree with gentlemen who thought this an improper time to discuss the general policy of removing the remnants of the Indian tribes to the west of the Mississippi. He thought that policy was now fairly before Congress: that if gentlemen meant to discuss it at all, now was the proper time to do so. It had heretofore been the custom to embrace these appropriations for the Indian service in the Military Appropriation Bill. The Committee of Ways and Means had thought it more proper to present them in a separate bill. They were all subjects for fair discussion. On the general subject of the policy of aiding the emigration of our Indians to the West, he had no hesitation in saying, that he regarded it as the settled policy of this Government. The Executive, under the last, as well as the present Administration, had clearly expressed an opinion in its favor. It was true, Congress had not yet officially expressed such a sentiment. But he believed it to be the settled opinion of a large majority of the House, that the Indians within the limits of our settled |