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until final judgment or decree shall be entered against the claimant or suit otherwise terminated: Provided, however, That nothing herein contained shall be so construed as to restrain or to prevent the Alien Property Custodian from paying taxes lawfully assessed by any body politic against such money or other property or from paying any expenses incurred by the Alien Property Custodian, or by any depositary for him, in or about securing possession, custody, or control of such money or other property, or in protecting and administering the same.

(b) In respect of all money or other property conveyed, transferred, assigned, delivered, or paid to the Alien Property Custodian or seized by him hereunder and held by him or by the Treasurer of the United States, if the President shall determine that the owner thereof at the time such money or other property was required to be so conveyed, transferred, assigned, delivered, or paid to the Alien Property Custodian, or at the time when it was voluntarily delivered to him or was seized by him, was— "(1) A citizen or subject of any nation or State or free city other than Germany or Austria or Hungary or Austria-Hungary, and is at the time of the return of such money or other property hereunder a citizen or subject of any such nation or State or free city; or

(2) A woman who, at the time of her marriage, was a subject or citizen of a nation which has remained neutral in the war, or of a nation which was associated with the United States in the prosecution of said war, and who, prior to April 6, 1917, intermarried with a subject or citizen of Germany or Austria-Hungary, and that the money or other property concerned was not acquired by such woman, either directly or indirectly, from any subject or citizen of Germany or Austria-Hungary subsequent to January 1, 1917; or

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‘(3) A woman who at the time of her marriage was a citizen of the United States, and who prior to April 6, 1917, intermarried with a subject or citizen of Germany or Austria-Hungary, and that the money or other property concerned was not acquired by such woman, either directly or indirectly, from any subject or citizen of Germany or Austria-Hungary subsequent to January 1, 1917; or

"(4) A citizen or subject of Germany or Austria or Hungary or Austria-Hungary and was at the time of the severance of diplomatic relations between the United States and such nations, respectively, accredited to the United States as a diplomatic or consular officer of any such nation, or the wife or minor child of such officer, and that the money or other property concerned was within the territory of the United States by reason of the service of such officer in such capacity; or

"(5) A citizen or subject of Germany or Austria-Hungary who, by virtue of the provisions of sections 4067, 4068, 4069, and 4070 of the Revised Statutes and of the proclamations and regulations thereunder, was transferred, after arrest, into the custody of the War Department of the United States for detention during the war and is at the time of the return of his money or other property hereunder living within the United States; or

'(5a) A citizen or subject of Germany or Austria or Hungary or Austria-Hungary, and that the money or other property concerned does not exceed in value the sum of $10,000; or

"(5b) A citizen or subject of Germany or Austria or Hungary or Austria-Hungary, and that the money or other property concerned although exceeding in value the sum of $10,000 is nevertheless susceptible of division and the part thereof to be returned hereunder does not exceed in value the sum of $10,000; or

"(6) A partnership, association, or other unincorporated body of individuals outside the United States, or a corporation incorporated within any country other than the United States, and was entirely owned at such time by subjects or citizens of nations, States, or free cities other than Germany or Austria or Hungary or AustriaHungary and is so owned at the time of the return of its money or other property hereunder; or

"(6a) A partnership, association, or other unincorporated body of individuals outside the United States, or a corporation incorporated within any country other than the United States, and that the money or other property concerned, or to be returned hereunder, does not exceed in value the sum of $10,000; or

"(7) The Government of Bulgaria or Turkey, or any political or municipal subdivision thereof; or

"(8) The Government of Germany or Austria or Hungary or Austria-Hungary, and that the money or other property concerned was the diplomatic or consular property of such Government-then the President, without any application being made therefor, may order the payment, conveyance, transfer, assignment, or delivery of such money or other property held by the Alien Property Custodian or by the Treasurer of the United States, or of the interest therein to which the President shall determine such person entitled, either to the said owner or to the person by whom said property was

conveyed, transferred, assigned, delivered, or paid over to the Alien Property Custodian: Provided, That no person shall be deemed or held to be a citizen or subject of Germany or Austria or Hungary or Austria-Hungary for the purposes of this section, even though he was such citizen or subject at the time first specified in this subsection, if he has become or shall become, ipso facto or through exercise of option, a citizen or subject of any nation or State or free city other than Germany, Austria, or Hungary, (first) under the terms of such treaties of peace as have been or may be concluded subsequent to November 11, 1918, between Germany or Austria or Hungary (of the one part) and the United States and/or three or more of the following-named powers: The British Empire, France, Italy, and Japan (of the other part), or (second) under the terms of such treaties as have been or may be concluded in pursuance of the treaties of peace aforesaid between any nation, State, or free city (of the one part) whose territories, in whole or in part, on August 4, 1914, formed a portion of the territory of Germany or Austria-Hungary and the United States and/or three or more of the followingnamed powers: The British Empire, France, Italy, and Japan (of the other part). For the purposes of this section any citizen or subject of a State or free city which at the time of the proposed return of money or other property of such citizen or subject hereunder forms a part of the territory of any one of the following nations: Germany, Austria, or Hungary, shall be deemed to be a citizen or subject of such nation. And the receipt of the said owner or of the person by whom said property was conveyed, transferred, assigned, delivered, or paid over to the Alien Property Custodian shall be a full acquittance and discharge of the Alien Property Custodian or the Treasurer of the United States, as the case may be, and of the United States in respect to all claims of all persons heretofore or hereafter claiming any right, title, or interest in said property, or compensation or damages arising from the capture of such property by the President or the Alien Property Custodian: Provided further, however, That except as herein provided no such action by the President shall bar any person from the prosecution of any suit at law or in equity to establish any right, title, or interest which he may have therein.

"(c) Any person whose property the President is authorized to return under the provisions of subsection (b) hereof may file notice of claim for the return of such property, as provided in subsection (a) hereof, and thereafter may make application to the President for allowance of such claim and/or may institute suit in equity to recover such property, as provided in said subsection, and with like effect. The President or the court, as the case may be, may make the same determinations with respect to citizenship and other relevant facts that the President is authorized to make under the provisions of subsection (b) hereof.

(d) Whenever a person, deceased, would have been entitled, if living, to the return of his money or other property hereunder, then his legal representative may proceed for the return of such property as provided in subsection (a) hereof: Provided, however, That the President or the court, as the case may be, before granting such relief shall impose such conditions by way of security or otherwise as the President or the court, respectively, shall deem sufficient to insure that such legal representative will redeliver to the Alien Property Custodian such portion of the money or other property so received by him shall be distributable to any person not eligible as a claimant under subsections (a) or (c) hereof.

"(dd) Whenever any person entitled to the return of money or other property hereunder has in good faith and for a valuable consideration transferred his title to such money or other property to an assignee, then such assignee in the name of such person for the use of the assignee and to the extent to which such person is entitled hereunder may proceed for the return of such money or other property as provided in subsection (a) hereof, and the President, if application is made therefor by the claimant, may order the payment, conveyance, transfer, assignment, or delivery to such assignee of such money or other property, or of the interest therein to which the President shall determine the claimant is entitled.

"(e) No money or other property shall be returned nor any debt allowed under this section to any person who is a citizen or subject of any nation which was associated with the United States in the prosecution of the war, unless such nation in like case extends reciprocal rights to citizens of the United States, nor in any event shall a debt be allowed under this section unless it was owing to and owned by the claimant prior to October 6, 1917, and as to claimants other than citizens of the United States unless it arose with reference to the money or other property held by the Alien Property Custodian or Treasurer of the United States hereunder.

"(f) Except as herein provided, the money or other property conveyed, transferred, assigned, delivered, or paid to the Alien Property Custodian, shall not be liable to lien, attachment, garnishment, trustee process, or execution, or subject to any order or decree of any court.

"(g) This section shall not apply, however, to money paid to the Alien Property Custodian under section 10 hereof, nor to any patent, trade-mark, print, label, or copyright, conveyed, transferred, assigned, or delivered to the Alien Property Custodian, or to the net proceeds received from the sale of any such patent, trade-mark, print. label, or copyright.'

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SEC. 2. That no money or other property shall be paid, conveyed, transferred, assigned, or delivered under this act or under the trading with the enemy act, to any agent, attorney, or representative of any person entitled thereto, unless satisfactory evidence is furnished the Alien Property Custodian or the court, as the case may be, that the fee of such agent, attorney, or representative for services in connection therewith does not exceed 10 per centum of the value of such money or other property, but nothing in this section shall be construed as fixing such fees at 10 per centum of the value of such money or other property, such 10 per centum being fixed only as the maximum fee that may be allowed or accepted for such services. The payment or acceptance of any fee in excess of such 10 per centum shall be punished in the same manner as provided in section 16 of the trading with the enemy act.

SEC. 3. That the claim under section 9 of the trading with the enemy act, as amended, of any naturalized American citizen shall not be denied on the ground of any presumption of expatriation which has arisen against him if he has returned to the United States to reside and gives satisfactory evidence of his loyalty to the United States during his absence while abroad. SEC. 4. That when used in this act the terms "person, ""ally of enemy,' "United States," and "bank or banks'' shall have the meaning assigned to them by section 2 of the trading with the enemy act.

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enemy,

The CHAIRMAN. Will Colonel Miller, the Alien Property Custodian, qualify and make a statement such as he chooses in respect to this bill and its purposes.

STATEMENT OF COL. THOMAS W. MILLER, ALIEN PROPERTY

CUSTODIAN.

Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, if it meets with the pleasure of the chairman and the members of the committee, I would request that I be permitted, in a very few moments, to briefly outline the purposes of this bill as we see it; and if it suits your pleasure, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, that I be not interrupted for a few moments, so that I can make a connected and general statement. If that meets your pleasure then, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I shall proceed along that line.

The CHAIRMAN. We shall hope that the members of the committee will restrain their interest in the matter as you desire, but it is not guaranteed.

Mr. MILLER. The bill which the chairman has referred to is the result of a number of months' study and consideration of the alien property situation which has developed since the establishment of peace and peace-time relations between the United States and the former powers with which she was at war.

Under the original trading with the enemy act, with which you gentlemen are undoubtedly familiar, the property belonging to enemy nationals, such as Germans, Austrians, and Hungarians, was seized and held by the Alien Property Custodian after the trading with the enemy act passed, on October 6, 1917. In addition thereto, under the provisions of that law, which were specific, property in this country was seized by the Alien Property Custodian belonging to people of other nationalities, who, at the time of war between the United States and the enemy Governments, were residing or abiding in the territories of the countries with which we were at war. I mention that because a considerable misunderstanding has been created, and rightfully so, as to why a number of people who are American citizens, or who claim to be American citizens, have had their property sequestered by the Alien Property Custodian, and in some cases under the law to-day we are unable to return it.

Briefly stated, the approximate amount of property taken over under the first Alien Property Custodian, Mr. A. Mitchell Palmer, amounted, in round figures, to $600,000,000. You have heard the figures, $800,000,000, and millions are juggled around in talking about this alien property as if they were dollars. With respect to the office, generally speaking, it is impossible to estimate accurately, within several millions, as to what this property is worth from day to day, or was worth when we took it over. Your Government, through the Alien Property Custodian's office, is administering probably the largest bank and trust company in the world. This property_consists to-day of about 31,000 active accounts. I shall refer to them as trusts. Every piece of property seized was given a trust number. In a number of trusts there are more than one person participating. And this consists of property scattered from the Philippine Islands and Hawaii to the coast of New England, con

sisting of industrial plants, such as chemical and woolen mills, steamship lines, banks, land and cattle companies, salmon factories, gold, silver, and other precious mines of metal, and other miscellaneous industrial plants, to say nothing of thousands of parcels of real estate and trusts represented by securities and liquid assets.

We are holding that property in accordance with the provisions of the trading with the enemy act, which says it shall be held until such time as Congress shall direct disposition thereof. Under the Knox-Porter peace resolution, which brought about a state of peace between the former enemy powers and the United States, which was signed July 2, 1921, we find, in section 5, words to this effect: "That all property belonging to the nationals of these former enemy powers shall be held by the United States and no disposition thereof made, except such as shall have been heretofore cr hereafter specifically provided by law, until such time as the Imperial German Government and the Imperial and Royal Austro-Hungarian Government, or their successor or successors, shall have, respectively, made suitable provision for the satisfaction of all claims against such Government," etc.

I mention that not in any way to encroach upon the duties of the Department of State and the Mixed Claims Commission, which is now operating, but in order that in a discussion o: this bill I may be the more readily understood. In theory this property is awaiting such disposition as the Congress cares to make of it.

On the one side there are those who advocate the immediate return of all property, and without further delay; on the other side are those who advocate the retention of this property and the immediate utilization of that property for the payment of the claims of American citizens as they are adjudicated and awards made by the Mixed Claims Commission.

I am not here to discuss the international phase of the situation, nor to go into a detailed discussion of the law on that point. It is maintained by some that under the treaty of Versailles, those portions in which the United States participates, as well as under our treaty with Germany, Austria, and Hungary, we could to-day proceed to liquidate this alien property and pay these claims as they are adjudicated. On the other hand, this administration, as well as previous ones, has made no secret of the fact that as a Nation we are opposed to the confiscation of property of private citizens to pay the debts of the Imperial German Government or of the Imperial and Koyal Austro-Hungarian Government. Nevertheless, under our resolution, to which I have referred, and our treaties with those countries, we have no other recourse at the present time but to hold this property as a guarantee—using the language of the resolution-until such time as these claims are adjudicated.

Now, to depart briefly and to give merely what I understand personally, it is said there will be probably a billion dollars' worth of claims filed with the Mixed Claims Commission against Germany and Austro-Hungary. That seems like a large sum of money. All precedents show that all war claims, in past wars, were settled on a basis of about 8 per cent. If that is carried out in an adjudication of these claims the settlements would amount to $80,000,000. Not that I adhere to this principle, but you will find, if you look over the records of past wars, that loss of life has been settled at a 2 per cent percentage. So in the case of our $190,000,000 of claims against Germany for losses of life on the high seas, if we go by any precedents in the past, they are to be considerably boiled down. The distinguished Senator from Alabama, Senator Underwood, asked me if I approved of the settlement of the Lusitania claims on a basis of 2 per cent. I told him, and I say the same to this committee, we are not governed by our feelings in this matter, but by past usages and precedents and what laws you gentlemen pass in Congress. I thought I would throw that in personally, because I touched upon the Mixed Claims Commission here to-day.

Now, this bill we are discussing drives down the middle of the road between those two angles that I have outlined heretofore. In our office we are the recipients of hundreds of the most pathetic appeals that anyone could receive. When you have several thousands of unwilling depositors, in this institution which I have compared to a trust company, you can well understand why they ask the question as to why they do not receive their property back, when we have been almost four years at peace, in theory, at least. And thousands of these people who have been connected with America are interested by their investments over here which we have seized and they have their friends and relatives in this country, and they, in turn, as you know, bombard you Members of Congress with queries which have been very difficult to answer or understand, as to why this property has not been returned to them four years after the armistice.

We, therefore, considered a way to temporarily, at least, handle the situation. We have suggested that all those amounts or trusts held by the Alien Property Custodian of the value of $10,000 and under be returned to the people from whom the property was taken. That was just a dead line that was drawn by those of us who were considering the proposition.

To-day, in the Alien Property Custodian's office, there are 30,368 active trusts. That represents generally more than 30,000 people-many more. There are 28,144 trusts of those active trusts, that are of a value of $10,000 and under. The average value of them is about $784. There are 2,224 trusts of the value of $10,000 and over. Now, in arriving at the figures that I will give you, let me explain again that we can not state specifically, within perhaps several millions of dollars, what the return of property would amount to if this bill were enacted into law. It would take a lot of money and expert bookkeeping and accounting and far more personnel than I am allowed in the office to have a ledger every day showing just what every one of those accounts was worth. We have every conceivable character of stock or bond or mortgage that we are holding, and it would mean running over the quotations from the stock exchanges in the New York papers every day and multiplying the quotations by the number of stocks or bonds, etc., to say what it amounts to. It fluctuates so. But taking these figures, and our experience for what it is worth, if you returned all the trusts of $10,000 and under, it would amount to approximately $22,122,000.

It is only right and proper, and would probably be necessary to make the law just, at the same time we are returning the trusts under $10,000, to return $10,000 out of every trust of the value of $10,000 and over, and that would add an additional $22,240,000. So that to-day, the only accurate estimate I can give you of what this $10,000 return would take from the office is that it amounts to approximately $44,362,000.

The approximate value of the alien property on hand November 30, 1922, exclusive of any vessels, carried on the books at $34,000,000, was $347,310,000.

I have here, Mr. Chairman, a statement of the cash and assets on hand, as well as claims paid, on various dates. It is brought up to date, and is similar to a table I inserted during the hearings before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary on Senator Underwood's bill. It shows the various items of cash and other assets on hand, and claims paid, at the termination of the tenure of office of A. Mitchell Palmer as Alien Property Custodian on March 4, 1919; and also a similar statement at the termination of the tenure of office of Francis P. Garvan as Alien Property Custodian on March 16, 1921, and similar information with respect to the office under the present administration as of July 15, 1922, and as of November 29, 1922. With your permission, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I would like to insert this in my remarks on this point. The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it may go in.

(The statement referred to is as follows:)

Statement of cash and assets on hand and claims paid on various dates, submitted by Thomas W. Miller, Alien Property Custodian.

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1 Termination of A. Mitchell Palmer's tenure of office as Alien Property Custodian. • Termination of Francis P. Garvan's tenure of office as Alien Property Custodian.

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